Did PC Long see the Ripper in Goulston Street?

[Abby Normal]

Hi Monty/All

In your opnion, how diligent were the constables on their beats during the time of the Ripper?

I mean, it was raining the night the of the double event and I am toying with how lucky/made his luck Jack was that night. Be it how he slipped away from Berner Street and also with timings involved with Kate Eddowes; the ability to act between the two beats and conduct his work in such a short period of time.

Jim

hi jun
im sure they were very diligent. its just he was very crafty and perceptive. after being interupted with stride and not being able to finish he made his way to mitre square area and found eddowes, waited till the coast was clear and did his thing. then threw in a monkey wrench blaming jews by leaving the apron and graffiti. no crazy person or stupid thug would have been able to pull off the events of the double event, defeating two police forces and leaving them all out of sorts and bickering. he blended in and slipped away every time. again pointing to a local serial killer with intimate and hands on experience of the east end environment.

[erobitha]

Hi Monty/All

In your opnion, how diligent were the constables on their beats during the time of the Ripper?

I mean, it was raining the night the of the double event and I am toying with how lucky/made his luck Jack was that night. Be it how he slipped away from Berner Street and also with timings involved with Kate Eddowes; the ability to act between the two beats and conduct his work in such a short period of time.

Jim

Was that just a reply to 13 year old post I just read?

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Was that just a reply to 13 year old post I just read?

Amusingly, yes, it was. But let's be honest, that's an easy mistake to make. But, it revives the old threads and gives us something else to talk about.

But it is funny when someone does that, all the same.
Don't be dissuaded Juniper, just start your post with "I know this is an old thread but"

Or, start your post with "I know this is old hat/rope (delete as appropriate) but", it's essentially the same.

[erobitha]

Amusingly, yes, it was. But let's be honest, that's an easy mistake to make. But, it revives the old threads and gives us something else to talk about.

But it is funny when someone does that, all the same.
Don't be dissuaded Juniper, just start your post with "I know this is an old thread but"

Or, start your post with "I know this is old hat/rope (delete as appropriate) but", it's essentially the same.

It certainly wasn't meant to be a slight on Jun's character. Just amazing how such topics remain timeless. Even if it was 13 years after the last reply :0

[Simon Wood]

PC Long and DC Halse—two police witnesses in Goulston Street at approximately the same moment. Yet neither reported seeing the other, the piece of apron, or the chalked message.

Yet, within the hour, one of them would discover the piece of apron and chalked message, and the other would be the first to notice the piece of apron was missing from the deceased.

[Kattrup]

PC Long and DC Halse—two police witnesses in Goulston Street at approximately the same moment. Yet neither reported seeing the other, the piece of apron, or the chalked message.

Yet, within the hour, one of them would discover the piece of apron and chalked message, and the other would be the first to notice the piece of apron was missing from the deceased.

Yes, it's almost like they're alert policemen looking for clues!

[Simon Wood]

Hi Kattrup,



Regards,

Simon

[Michael W Richards]

PC Long and DC Halse—two police witnesses in Goulston Street at approximately the same moment. Yet neither reported seeing the other, the piece of apron, or the chalked message.

Yet, within the hour, one of them would discover the piece of apron and chalked message, and the other would be the first to notice the piece of apron was missing from the deceased.

Hello my friend, nice to see you. On Long....is it written anywhere what his route was or where he was to go for that next loop just after passing the Model Homes entrance around 2:20?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Michael,

No, it's not.

PC Long discovered the apron piece and chalked message during the first night on his new beat in Goulston Street, on which, strangely, he was unaccompanied.

But he did know the way from Goulston Street to Commercial Street police station.

Hope you're staying well.

Simon

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Michael,

No, it's not.

PC Long discovered the apron piece and chalked message during the first night on his new beat in Goulston Street, on which, strangely, he was unaccompanied.

But he did know the way from Goulston Street to Commercial Street police station.

Hope you're staying well.

Simon

Thanks Simon, I am, and I hope youre doing well too. By the by...Lost my rescue Zoey last year... and just celebrated my first 6 months with new BF Willy, my Mexican refugee. Ill send you a pic.

[jerryd]

Hi Michael,

No, it's not.

PC Long discovered the apron piece and chalked message during the first night on his new beat in Goulston Street, on which, strangely, he was unaccompanied.

But he did know the way from Goulston Street to Commercial Street police station.

Hope you're staying well.

Simon

Actually Simon and Michael, I believe it you look at the beat of PC Allen and PC Andrews on the night of Claypipe Alice's murder, you can get an idea. The two men split the beat that night. Allen to the eastern half and Andrews, the western half. This beat went as far as Middlesex Street to the west, which is actually the boundary of the City and Met police beats. (I believe the west side of Middlesex Street was patrolled by the City and the east side by the Met)

Lloyds Weekly, July 21, 1889 gives a bit of info on the streets as well as other press inquest reports. Interestingly, during that time anyways, Goulston Street appears to have been traveled in two halves. Andrews states he traveled from Newcastle Street into Whitechapel High, west to Goulston. Half way up Goulston and down the other side back to Whitechapel High Street. I believe the top half (Goulston) was done after Andrews exited the north end of Castle Street and headed west on Wentworth Street to Goulston Street. That's the best I can piece together from the accounts I have available.

Not sure if that helps or not. Monty also has the route that was used for that beat, IIRC, from 1930 or so.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for the information.

Where the question of PC Long's beat starts going pear-shaped is in the matter of who took it over during the two hours whilst Long detoured to Commercial Street police station, returned to Goulston Street with an Inspector, and then went to Leman Street police station, returning to Goulston Street at "about five o'clock," just in time to see the graffiti erased.

Long says it was Police Constable H 190, but did not know his name.

Do you know anything about this constable?

I hope you're keeping well.

Regards,

Simon

[jerryd]

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for the information.

Where the question of PC Long's beat starts going pear-shaped is in the matter of who took it over during the two hours whilst Long detoured to Commercial Street police station, returned to Goulston Street with an Inspector, and then went to Leman Street police station, returning to Goulston Street at "about five o'clock," just in time to see the graffiti erased.

Long says it was Police Constable H 190, but did not know his name.

Do you know anything about this constable?

I hope you're keeping well.

Regards,

Simon

Simon.

All is well here. Hope the same for you.

PC 190H was Willie Bettles.( research by Monty and Chris Scott) I also found a PC 190H when researching Kate Marshall's case, patrolling Dorset Street, but that was many years after this, of course. And he is not named other than the collar number.

[jerryd]

I looked back at a post I made on JTR forums, the Kate Marshall case was actually from April of 1888. So Bettles was working the Dorset Street beat in early 1888.

Lloyds Weekly Newspaper April 22, 1888

[Varqm]

Willie Bettles
Appointed:Nov 14 1887
Resigned:7-14-13..I'm assuming 1913

It' is unusual that the Dorset St. patrolling officer was not in the Kelly inquest,probably drafted to the Lord Mayor's show or no patrols in the early morning.Same with the Hanbury St. patrolling officer during Chapman's case.The rest of the C5 had one.

I'm looking for the Sgt Bradshaw in the Kelly case,

"She was in the habit of going nightly to a publichouse at Fish-street-hill; but Sergeant
Bradshaw, on making inquiry at the house in question, found that she had not been there for upwards of a month
past."
Times (London)
Monday, November 12, 1888.

I can only find one Sgt. Bradshaw,in the Met,but from Hampstead division.The Bradshaw in the H division was a PC.Maybe a temp/draftee for the ripper months.No list exist of PC's temporarily drafted to H division,but maybe there was.