City Of London Police Group Photo 1887

[Monty]

Hi all,

Attached is the 1887 Police Group Photo of the City of London Police kindly provided by Stewart Evans.

The Officers involved indicates its 6th Division Bishopsgate.

I have put names of those Officers identified, ones question marked are ongoing.

Please be wary that this research is no way complete and would have been made easier if the collar numbers were clearer and men didnt grow beards.

However, I hope this helps some.

Monty

[Dave O]

How great it is to see this. Thanks to you and Stewart.

[PaulB]

Outram was bearded so he'd be man 2 or 3; man 2 looks too thickly bearded, man 3 not thickly enough. If it's either, I'd go for man 2, especially if he habitually wore a tie-pin! See A to Z for photo of Outram.

[PaulB]

Also, if either man in Collard, I'd go for the man on the right as he has a full beard, whereas the man on the left appears to have a clean-shaven chin

[PaulB]

I mean the New A to Z, of course, and I forgot to mention that it is also where there's a line drawing of Collard.

[Monty]

Outram was bearded so he'd be man 2 or 3; man 2 looks too thickly bearded, man 3 not thickly enough. If it's either, I'd go for man 2, especially if he habitually wore a tie-pin! See A to Z for photo of Outram.

Hi Paul,

Personally I felt it was 2 however Rob disagreed.

I must say, he had put on a tad of weight since 87. Yet again, who doesn't?

Monty

[Monty]

Also, if either man in Collard, I'd go for the man on the right as he has a full beard, whereas the man on the left appears to have a clean-shaven chin

Hi again Paul,

Yes, I feel the man on the right is Collard purely based on that line drawing in the new A-Z.

Unfortunately I cannot be sure however as Scott says, if Collard was present at that photo shoot he is one of two.

Beards are a pain. The photo is from 87, those who had beards then may not have done in 88. If the drawing of Watkins is correct, he had a beard in 88. Doesn't mean he had one in 87. Also doesn't mean he was present at the shoot.

All these factors weigh in along with the poor quality of some of the collar numbers shown. And then you have the collar numbers which can change.

These are the troubles Rob and I face when trying to identify City PCs. Wescott is right, you authors have it easy

Monty

[PaulB]

Yes, beards come and grow. And get shaved off. But they can be a guide, and along with other facial characteristics are sometimes all we have to go on. The thing to do is track down descendants and ask for family photos.

[mariab]

The thing to do is track down descendants and ask for family photos.

Cool research idea, obviously.

Might I inquire what are the 7 men with medals and NO uniform on pictured in the first 2 rows?

[lynn cates]

identification

Hello Neil. Lovely work, yet again.

I wonder if some identification could be made by ascertaining dates of birth and then matching those with apparent ages?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Astonishing how long a beard was still deemed acceptable in those days in the force, and interesting how common an exposed watch chain was, which appears to be partly due to the common habit of only fastening the top button of the jacket. An unusual custom compared with today.
Great picture, nice to put an occasional face to the names, thankyou Neil, and of course Stewart.

Regards, Jon

[Carol]

What a really fantastic photograph! Thank you Monty! As 1887 was the year of Queen Victoria's Golden Jubilee perhaps it was taken in celebration. I notice that all of the men have medals - perhaps 'celebratory medals'?

The men in ordinary clothes were no doubt detectives, Maria.

Carol

[mariab]

The men in ordinary clothes were no doubt detectives, Maria.

As in plainclothes detectives? But spotting their medals? Hmm. Live to learn (about British Police procedures).

[Dave O]

According to Scotland Yard Investigates (p. 232), those are jubilee medals.

[mariab]

The jubilee medals I was suspecting, thanks to the old thread about the alleged photo of Gordon Brown. It seems that they were putting them on for the formal occasion of getting photographed?