Facial Mutilations

[Harry D]

Hello Harry. thanks.

""Hack and mangle job". That's just like, your opinion, man. There was still a degree of skill evinced in the Eddowes's murder, Lynn."

Not according to the coroner and medical examiner.

What about Dr. Brown?

[Hunter]

[Wickerman]

Thankyou Errata, thankyou Cris.
I couldn't just put my finger on it, but felt sure I had come across it somewhere.

With Nichols the police threw a cordon around the mortuary.
"The neighbourhood was in a state of great excitement on Friday, and a strong force of police has been put around the mortuary. The body has been locked up in the mortuary, and, with the exception of the police surgeon and the police who stripped the body, no one is allowed inside."

With Chapman, among some general gripes about the police from the press, we find that the mortuary door was guarded.
"On Saturday they shut the reporters out of the mortuary; they shut them out of the house where the murder was done; the constable at the mortuary door lied to them; some of the inspectors at the offices seemed to wilfully mislead them; they denied information which would have done no harm to make public, and the withholding of which only tended to increase the public uneasiness over the affair."

The body of the victim, one way or another, was under guard. Not left unattended.

[Wickerman]

"The mortuary in which the body of the murdered woman lies is situated at the corner of Eagle-street, a cul de sac ending in a pair of green doors, within which several officers of the police guard the remains of the dead."

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/manchester_guardian/mg880910.html

[c.d.]

Hello (again) CD.

"My comment was directed at Lynn. He thinks all of the victims were out selling magazine subscriptions rather than soliciting."

Not so. Polly and Annie--by their own words--were soliciting.

But, once again, I refuse to make the illogical leap from the existential quantifier to the universal. So should you.

Cheers.
LC

Ok. No more leaping over the existential quantifier for me. From now on, I am tiptoeing around that bad boy.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon,

Interesting. I never heard that before. Can you cite to anything to confirm that?

c.d.

Hi c.d.

It was one of those details that you read but never think to 'bookmark'.
The body was important evidence until the cause of death was officially established. After the end of the inquest, until the burial, I wouldn't know what procedures were followed.

Any theory that suggests the body was tempered with before the end of the inquest fails to acknowledge the importance of the body as evidence.

[Errata]

Thanks. Always nice to put a win in the "Not losing my damn mind" column. There are enough losses as of late.

[lynn cates]

cutting remarks

Hello Harry. Thanks.

What of Dr. Brown? My remarks are SOLELY about cutting skills.

Cheers.
LC

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi c.d.

It was one of those details that you read but never think to 'bookmark'.
The body was important evidence until the cause of death was officially established. After the end of the inquest, until the burial, I wouldn't know what procedures were followed.

Any theory that suggests the body was tempered with before the end of the inquest fails to acknowledge the importance of the body as evidence.

And any suggestion that rules out any other possibility without supporting evidence is fraught with danger. The simple fact is that what was supposed to happen and what did actually happen to the body is debatable. The body was left for almost 12 hours before they came back to do the post mortem.

During that time the mortuary and mortuary staff would have bo doubt continued their normal business. I doubt they would have closed the mortuary down for that 12 hour period. Dead bodies were still being brought there. So anything is possible.

If there was a guard left you can bet he would have been stood outside and not by the body. For those who have never been to an old mortuary there is a smell of death, which emanates around the mortuary so I can tell you from experience that no one would want to stand in one of those for very long. So with that in mind whose to say that the body was not tampered with by someone from the medical profession `lawfully` seeking organs for medical research. After all the abdomen was already ripped open so no need for anyone to spend time doing that.

This might explain the suggestion that some medical knowledge was used to remove the organs, and this may have taken only a few minutes. After all he would have had the proper instruments and would have had sufficient lighting, and would not have had to encounter a blood filled abdomen.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[DJA]

So with that in mind whose to say that the body was not tampered with by someone from the medical profession `lawfully` seeking organs for medical research.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Do you suspect the Frankenstein family associated with 6 Fashion Street?

The only time I spent in a mortuary was a Saturday night/Sunday morning in 1967.
Cannot recall any nasty body smell.

[Jon Guy]

Not so. Polly and Annie--by their own words--were soliciting.

Neither Nichols or Chapman said they were going to solicit.

[Debra A]

.... So with that in mind whose to say that the body was not tampered with by someone from the medical profession `lawfully` seeking organs for medical research. After all the abdomen was already ripped open so no need for anyone to spend time doing that.

How could a medic be seeking organs 'lawfully' in that scenario though, Trevor. Surely he would be tampering with the evidence in a murder case? i don't believe the police would be that lax with evidence like actual bodies?!
If it were lawful there would be paperwork giving him permission to remove organs, as the workhouse docs had to have too.

[Trevor Marriott]

How could a medic be seeking organs 'lawfully' in that scenario though, Trevor. Surely he would be tampering with the evidence in a murder case? i don't believe the police would be that lax with evidence like actual bodies?!
If it were lawful there would be paperwork giving him permission to remove organs, as the workhouse docs had to have too.

Yes we know that the bodies should not have been tampered with, but needs must when the devil calls, we were not there. If all that were there was a mortuary keeper like Robert Mann then anything is possible and a police officer stood outside. If you read up about the Anatomy Act you will see that yes, there were supposed to be regulations and records but it appears a lot of this fell by the wayside despite there being appointed Inspectors to monitor and enforce the regulations.

Do you not think it strange that the only two victims who had organs removed both had their abdomens ripped open to the degree that it would be easy to access the organs inside. All the other victims injuries were not as severe so it would have been almost impossible to remove organs from them without it being noticed.

Also we have those same two victims being taken to two different mortuaries. We know that every day there were medical personnel seeking out not only organs but bodies as well at the mortuaries.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Jon Guy]

. If all that were there was a mortuary keeper like Robert Mann then anything is possible

Hi Trevor

Just out of interest, do you know who the Golden Lane equivalent of Mr Mann was, and his domestic situation?

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor

Just out of interest, do you know who the Golden Lane equivalent of Mr Mann was, and his domestic situation?

I am sorry I dont