Facial Mutilations

[c.d.]

[QUOTE=Harry D;347153]Hello, Lynn.

What makes you think the assailant knew the times of the beats, and not Eddowes?

Why would any of the victims have concerned themselves with the times of the beats unless they were engaging in some criminal activity like prostitution?

c.d.

[Pcdunn]

To Errata:

Thinking about the symbolism of eyes... If "the eyes are the windows to the soul", then what are the eyelids? Shutters?
A person with shut eyelids cannot see.
Slits in eyelids perhaps bring attention to someone who should have either not seen, or have pretended not to have seen... Something.

I think it is a sort of criminal code, just as the attempt to cut off her nose might refer to "keep your nose out of our business"...

There were various criminal gangs in the LVP, to say nothing of anarchists, Irish home-rule terrorists, socialists, and so forth. It was an era of turbulence and conflict, which would lead to widespread changes over several decades.

Why do the facial mutilations need to "mean" anything special to the murderer himself? Isn't it just as likely they are a message to the underclass of Whitechapel in general, perhaps a message to potential witnesses to "turn a blind eye" to Jack's activities? After all, wasn't Eddowes supposed to have said she "thought she knew who the Ripper was"?

[Errata]

To Errata:

Thinking about the symbolism of eyes... If "the eyes are the windows to the soul", then what are the eyelids? Shutters?
A person with shut eyelids cannot see.
Slits in eyelids perhaps bring attention to someone who should have either not seen, or have pretended not to have seen... Something.

I think it is a sort of criminal code, just as the attempt to cut off her nose might refer to "keep your nose out of our business"...

There were various criminal gangs in the LVP, to say nothing of anarchists, Irish home-rule terrorists, socialists, and so forth. It was an era of turbulence and conflict, which would lead to widespread changes over several decades.

Why do the facial mutilations need to "mean" anything special to the murderer himself? Isn't it just as likely they are a message to the underclass of Whitechapel in general, perhaps a message to potential witnesses to "turn a blind eye" to Jack's activities? After all, wasn't Eddowes supposed to have said she "thought she knew who the Ripper was"?

Yes. To every one of those and more, which is why figuring out what the hell a killer is trying to say, or if he is saying anything at all is mostly impossible. We have very few clear symbols in the world as it is. But factor in that the symbols may be only known to small subsection of people, or to a pair, or simply means something only to the killer. Like he could tell us what he meant in detail, and it still might not make sense to us. Or it seems to complicated or too simple. Like the zodiac letters that are either nonsense and people are banging their heads against a wall, or they are so obscure the CIA hasn't been able to break it in 30 years even with computers.

Effective communication requires someone to understand what he's saying. But just because he thinks he's making something clear doesn't mean he actually is. And here we stand. Wondering what the hell THAT was all about in perpetuity. But just because we don't get it doesn't mean it wasn't a message. We just don't get it.

[lynn cates]

romantic

Hello Harry. Thanks.

"What makes you think the assailant knew the times of the beats, and not Eddowes?"

Would he undertake such an enterprise in hopes of being lucky time-wise?

"Why do you doubt if the killer took the kidney?"

Because it was done carefully--not like the rest of the hack and mangle job.

"Whoever killed Eddowes was a fast operator, not only to remove one internal organ but slice up her face, as well. Why wouldn't he have been able to cut out another trophy while he was at it?'

Pure speculation.

"For what it's worth, I think the Lusk letter was probably genuine, and that might've been his motivation for stopping to take a second organ."

And I disagree. But your version is more interesting--almost romantic.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

facilities

Hello CD. Thanks.

Anyone at the mortuary. It was much more conducive to such an activity compared to the Whitechapel facilities.

Cheers.
LC

[Harry D]

Why would any of the victims have concerned themselves with the times of the beats unless they were engaging in some criminal activity like prostitution?

Isn't that exactly what Eddowes was doing that night?

Would he undertake such an enterprise in hopes of being lucky time-wise?

You could say that about anything he did with the victim.

Because it was done carefully--not like the rest of the hack and mangle job.

"Hack and mangle job". That's just like, your opinion, man. There was still a degree of skill evinced in the Eddowes murder, Lynn.

Pure speculation.

We have a woman who's been ripped open and had her innards pulled out. Speculative is believing this was done by someone other than her killer.

And I disagree. But your version is more interesting--almost romantic.

[Hunter]

The Golden Lane mortuary was also under more regulated control.

[c.d.]

Hello CD. Thanks.

Anyone at the mortuary. It was much more conducive to such an activity compared to the Whitechapel facilities.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

It's hard to believe that only one single person (i.e., the kidney taker) would handle or view the body from the time she was brought in until she was placed in the casket for burial. Don't you think such an action would be noticeable by the other employees in the mortuary?

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello Harry,

My comment was directed at Lynn. He thinks all of the victims were out selling magazine subscriptions rather than soliciting.

I think that it is quite possible that Kate had been soliciting earlier and met her killer then. I have always wondered where she got the money for her drinks. So I think it possible that later that evening she met up with him again and met her fate.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

Hello Lynn,

It's hard to believe that only one single person (i.e., the kidney taker) would handle or view the body from the time she was brought in until she was placed in the casket for burial. Don't you think such an action would be noticeable by the other employees in the mortuary?

c.d.

I was under the impression it was customary for a police constable to stand by the body from when it arrived at the mortuary until the inquest was concluded.
The body is evidence after all.

[c.d.]

Hello Jon,

Interesting. I never heard that before. Can you cite to anything to confirm that?

c.d.

[lynn cates]

coroner

Hello Harry. thanks.

""Hack and mangle job". That's just like, your opinion, man. There was still a degree of skill evinced in the Eddowes's murder, Lynn."

Not according to the coroner and medical examiner.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

inventory

Hello CD. Thanks.

What I DO find hard to believe is that an inventory of her internal organs was kept--especially given the hacked up condition of her body. Recall that Polly was examined subsequent to Annie--just to check.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

quatified logic

Hello (again) CD.

"My comment was directed at Lynn. He thinks all of the victims were out selling magazine subscriptions rather than soliciting."

Not so. Polly and Annie--by their own words--were soliciting.

But, once again, I refuse to make the illogical leap from the existential quantifier to the universal. So should you.

Cheers.
LC

[Errata]

Hello Jon,

Interesting. I never heard that before. Can you cite to anything to confirm that?

c.d.

I think I've heard that too. In context of a discussion with the esteemed Trevor Marriot about Annie Chapman being left outside the door unattended or not? This was like when I first joined, so I have no idea why I remember it. I just really think I do. Possibly involving press or other bribes to step away and let someone look at her? He might know what I'm talking about. Or if I'm making this up entirely.