How Fast An Operator Was JtR?

[lynn cates]

statistics

Hello Amanda. Thanks.

Statistics tells us of the past; probability, of the future.

Logic deals with facts and inferences about them.

Cheers.
LC

[Amanda Sumner]

Hello Amanda. Thanks.

Statistics tells us of the past; probability, of the future.

Logic deals with facts and inferences about them.

Cheers.
LC

Sorry, I should have said, and meant, records of the numbers, or better still the methods of murders in that area in the year 1887 and 1888.
I just think that 2 murders, both by cutting the throat, are far more likely to have been done by the same person. The police certainly thought so at the time.
It could not have been that common for the police to find women lying in the street with their throats cut.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Sorry, I should have said, and meant, records of the numbers, or better still the methods of murders in that area in the year 1887 and 1888.
I just think that 2 murders, both by cutting the throat, are far more likely to have been done by the same person. The police certainly thought so at the time.
It could not have been that common for the police to find women lying in the street with their throats cut.

Number of women murdered by knife in England

1887- 11
1888- 17
1889- 11

If I recall correctly for a couple years before and after it is around double digits. It isn't anything conclusive. An increase or decrease of 2-4 victims a year would be well in range of being normal I think. Six is definitely high. Definitely something going on out of the usual. But I think we all already knew that.

[Amanda Sumner]

Thank you Digalittledeeperwatson!

So very low numbers really, when you consider the population in that area.
So if 17 were murdered by knife in '88 over the whole year, then 2 in one night must have been very uncommon. It at least supports my belief that the same person killed Stride and Eddowes.
Anything is possible, of course, and I may be wrong.

I do think that the Ripper, btw, had to have taken longer to do the ghastly deeds on Eddowes than the few minutes that were afforded him, if indeed, Eddowes was seen with a man barely 10 minutes before.
Of course, I could be wrong there, too!

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Amanda

Actually three women were killed by knife. If I recall correctly the other woman's throat was also slit. By her husband. For clarity, those numbers are for the whole of England. Going off of memory. If I got any of that wrong, someone please correct me.

[Michael W Richards]

There were 3 women killed by slit throat on the night of the Double Event, 2 were cut once and one was cut in a manner consistent with the wounds Jack inflicts. A Mr Brown slit his wifes throat that night.

I think it should be mentioned that looking for murders of women shouldnt be limited to only the ones committed with knives, or only women whose throats were cut. I can tell you that there were plenty of solved assaults that year that involved cutting or stabbing with knives, men and women, and the knife is easily the most accessible weapon to anyone in the East End at that time...they can be stolen...as the one in Kates pocket may have been..they can be purchased cheaply, and many people used them for work.

Jack the Ripper wasnt the only man carrying a knife, and he wasnt the only man that cut throats, he was the only man who was never identified that was suspected of cutting 5 womens throats to kill them and then mutilating 4 of them. There are lots of assaults with knives.....I think it would be prudent to limit Jacks involvement to ones that have the signature postmortem mutilation feature....something we believe only 2 killers at that time did....Jack, and the Torso maker.

There is nothing to eliminate the possibility that one or more of the murders may have features that were replicated from previous unsolved cases, and there is nothing known to eliminate a common street killer from the Stride murder.

Ive seen statistics that quote the number of unsolved murders of women by slit throat, and Ive seen stats that list all the murders of 1888 in London...of which the East End is responsible for about 1/3 that year. Ive seen stats that cover the murders by knife. Knife assaults were not only regular occurrences they were almost daily events. People brandishing knives in front of others, threatening to stab or cut someone, people like Leather Apron stalking the streets carrying a few of them.

Get over the knife feature of the murders....its a common weapon for that place and time and we can say empirically that there were many people aside from Jack that carried them and were willing to use them.

Cheers

[Amanda Sumner]

Thank you for that information Michael Richards. I shall bear that in mind in any future posts that I write.
It's a good thing that there are people in the know that can teach us newbies a thing or two!
I just felt that it was unlikely to have been two knife wielding fiends walking the streets on that same night.
Clearly, I'm wrong!

[GUT]

G'Day again Amanda

And of course we had the Torso Killer operating as a Serial Killer in the same area at the same time. Sometimes coincidence is the answer.

GUT

[lynn cates]

statistics

Hello Amanda. Thanks.

Of course, all that is still statistics.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

right

Hello DLDW.

"It isn't anything conclusive."

Now you're talking.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

3

Hello Amanda.

"So if 17 were murdered by knife in '88 over the whole year, then 2 in one night must have been very uncommon."

So how uncommon is it that THREE women died that night from a knife?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

redundant

Hello (again) Amanda. Oops, I see others have made my point. Sorry to be redundant.

Cheers.
LC

[GUT]

G'Day LC

So how uncommon is it that THREE women died that night from a knife?

I expect unheard of.

GUT

[Amanda Sumner]

G'Day LC



I expect unheard of.

GUT

Well that's the point I was trying to make.
If 17 murders by knife were committed in 1888, in that area (Or the whole of England?), then what were the chances of two knife wielding fiends roaming the streets that night within walking distance of each other?
If that was true, and a third, unrelated, knife killing was committed elsewhere as well, then it was most unfortunate for anyone to be have been out that night!

I don't think it is an unreasonable observation of mine, even if crime with knives was very common. There were only 17 murders in the whole of that year. Six up from the year before and the year after.

I know it's off thread but I originally brought this up because someone suggested that there may well have been more than one operator, depending on who one believed was killed by the Ripper.

[GUT]

G'Day

Back on thread though.

If Jacky did not engage in any sort of transaction with the victims, but rather waited till they were alone and attacked [maybe from behind], cut their throats, then ripped. His "exposure" would be greatly reduced.

GUT