Torsoman vs The Ripper

[Michael W Richards]

I believe that what Trevor is on about is that any unclaimed or unrecorded body, or portions thereof or the complete specimens, had value in that era and field of study. The need to study actual specimens was huge, and people generally didnt leave their bodies to science in large numbers. Intact body was a requisite for burial in a Catholic cemetery at that time. Samples were sure money. Which in the realm of this thread would seem to indicate that Torso Man was not doing this for financial gain. Too much material is recovered.

[Michael W Richards]

To which I'd add... The Torso Killer(s) almost certainly had a "home" where they could kill and cut their victims up more easily. The Ripper did not have such luxury, but operated in public places, in someone else's backyard, and a rented room in a shared house.

Its been a long time Mr Flynn, I hope youre healthy and happy. On the above, it is almost a given that Torso man had a place where he could do his dirty work, a place only he had access to. And Fiver did address something I believe is most relevant....the time period for when Torso's first appeared and when they ended. There were some before and some during, but over a period of years, not months. As rj noted a lot has simply been assumed with this theory, something I hope Ripperologists will abandon one day. Like for example that the Ripper killed someone in a rented room in a shared house. All we really know is that a theory was constructed by contemporary investigators that a certain list of victims likely belonged to Jack and for over a century that has been the working hypothesis with which one begins the study, but we dont know that any of them were actually accurately attributed to a single killer.

[etenguy]

There is always a first time, never say never !!!!!!

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

In the newly re-opened Hunterian Museum within the Royal College of Surgeons of England, one on the contemporary specimens is a human heart donated by someone who underwent a heart transplant. The donor visited the Museum as part of its relaunch. The museum is in Lincoln's Inn fields if anyone wants to visit, though book a ticket (free) online as it is proving very popular.

[Debra A]

Body dealers and it seems teaching hospitals did not worry about official records, needs must when the devil calls bearing organs as gifts !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Instead of you and others continually spouting off on this topic which by your posts you are not in possession of the full facts surrounding the activities of body dealers I would suggest before continuing with this constant tirade you take time to read up on the topic you might learn something

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Yeah! For goodness sake people! Read an internet article on the subject, then you too will become as well informed as Trevor.

[Trevor Marriott]

Don’t know where you got that information, I’ve never gifted an organ in my life

There is always a first time, never say never !!!!!!

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Robert St Devil]

needs must when the devil calls bearing organs as gifts !!!!!!!!!!!!!

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Don’t know where you got that information, I’ve never gifted an organ in my life

[Trevor Marriott]

The thread that Debra linked shows you are wrong. In it she says "I was looking through the St George in the East Infirmary death Register for the late 1880's and noticed a couple of interesting things. This register actually recorded where the bodies of dead pauper inmates went or who they were collected by. Concentrating on the year 1889, I noted that in one year at the workhouse infirmary there had been 57 deaths recorded and of those 57 deaths, 8 of the bodies were recorded as being sent to the School of Anatomy. Interestingly, only two of those bodies were females."

The records show that medical schools wanted whole corpses, not dismembered organs.

The records show that medical schools primarily used male corpses.

The records show that there were a lot more corpses available for dissection than were actually sold to medical schools.



Based on the ages of the Torso victims, we should be able to rule out natural causes. Based on the condition of the bodies, we can rule out anatomical study.

That leaves three possibilities.

* Accidental death.
* Suicide.
* Murder.

Obviously, suicides don't carve their own bodies up and drop the bits in multiple locations.

There is no reason for someone to carve up the body of an accident victim and drop the bits in multiple locations. A botched abortion night have been accidental, but it was murder in the eyes of the law.

Which leaves only one credible explanation for bodies being carved up and the bits dropped in multiple locations - murder, whether deliberate or a botched abortion.

Body dealers and it seems teaching hospitals did not worry about official records, needs must when the devil calls bearing organs as gifts !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Instead of you and others continually spouting off on this topic which by your posts you are not in possession of the full facts surrounding the activities of body dealers I would suggest before continuing with this constant tirade you take time to read up on the topic you might learn something

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Fiver]

Female body parts and heads were more sought after and easily obtainable and easily sold than their male counterparts
and it would have been easier to remove those body parts for a quick and easy sale and the remains of the torsos were left to those in possession of the remaining torsos to dispose of them.

The thread that Debra linked shows you are wrong. In it she says "I was looking through the St George in the East Infirmary death Register for the late 1880's and noticed a couple of interesting things. This register actually recorded where the bodies of dead pauper inmates went or who they were collected by. Concentrating on the year 1889, I noted that in one year at the workhouse infirmary there had been 57 deaths recorded and of those 57 deaths, 8 of the bodies were recorded as being sent to the School of Anatomy. Interestingly, only two of those bodies were females."

The records show that medical schools wanted whole corpses, not dismembered organs.

The records show that medical schools primarily used male corpses.

The records show that there were a lot more corpses available for dissection than were actually sold to medical schools.

I keep repeating this but where is the evidence to show they were all murdered ? the answer is there is none

So the answer based on that is that you nor Debra or any of the others who are insistent that these torsos were the subject of murder cannot prove that to be correct so they should be categorised using modern-day terminology as "died under suspicious circumstances"

Based on the ages of the Torso victims, we should be able to rule out natural causes. Based on the condition of the bodies, we can rule out anatomical study.

That leaves three possibilities.

* Accidental death.
* Suicide.
* Murder.

Obviously, suicides don't carve their own bodies up and drop the bits in multiple locations.

There is no reason for someone to carve up the body of an accident victim and drop the bits in multiple locations. A botched abortion night have been accidental, but it was murder in the eyes of the law.

Which leaves only one credible explanation for bodies being carved up and the bits dropped in multiple locations - murder, whether deliberate or a botched abortion.

[Trevor Marriott]

Medical research is not performed on dismembered organs.

Medical schools wanted whole cadavers for anatomical study, not dismembered organs.

Hospitals and workhouses could gain significant money by legally selling the whole bodies of poor people who died there.

None of the Torso victims shows the slightest sign of having been dissected for medical study.

[Fiver]

There were never enough organs for medical research which it why body dealers prospered.

Medical research is not performed on dismembered organs.

Medical schools wanted whole cadavers for anatomical study, not dismembered organs.

Hospitals and workhouses could gain significant money by legally selling the whole bodies of poor people who died there.

None of the Torso victims shows the slightest sign of having been dissected for medical study.

[FrankO]

Female body parts and heads were more sought after and easily obtainable and easily sold than their male counterparts and it would have been easier to remove those body parts for a quick and easy sale and the remains of the torsos were left to those in possession of the remaining torsos to dispose of them.

So Trevor, you're saying that it was female body parts that were sold and that the parts that weren't sold were dumped. Seeing that this is not something we didn't already know, this is no answer to either of my questions - again.

I keep repeating this but where is the evidence to show they were all murdered ? the answer is there is none

Whatever my opinion is on the subject, it has nothing to do with the questions I asked, but all to do with your opinion. For which there's no evidence either.

[Debra A]

So the answer based on that is that you nor Debra or any of the others who are insistent that these torsos were the subject of murder [/B][/U]

www.trevormarriott,co.uk

I haven't insisted any such thing. My beef is your insistence that they weren't murders without providing the same sort of evidence you demand from others and despite all the valid points made against your vague and generalised theory by many many posters.

[Abby Normal]

Naughty naughty Abby, now go sit on the naughty step and write 100 lines I must stop being a numpty !!!!!!!!!

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

lol. i actually remember having to write ..I will not talk in class... a hundred times in elementary school.

[Trevor Marriott]

How would you explain that only some but not all body parts and organs were sold (but, instead, were left to be discovered)?
Wouldn't that have been 'money thrown away' for the party not selling them?

Female body parts and heads were more sought after and easily obtainable and easily sold than their male counterparts and it would have been easier to remove those body parts for a quick and easy sale and the remains of the torsos were left to those in possession of the remaining torsos to dispose of them.

I keep repeating this but where is the evidence to show they were all murdered ? the answer is there is none

So the answer based on that is that you nor Debra or any of the others who are insistent that these torsos were the subject of murder cannot prove that to be correct so they should be categorised using modern-day terminology as "died under suspicious circumstances"

www.trevormarriott,co.uk

[FrankO]

There is no conclusive evidence as to who disposed of the remains or where or when

How does 'who', 'where' or 'when' answer the questions that I posed, Trevor?

They were:
How would you explain that only some but not all body parts and organs were sold (but, instead, were left to be discovered)?
Wouldn't that have been 'money thrown away' for the party not selling them?

You can answer the second question with a simple 'yes' or 'no' and a suggestion for an answer to the first might be something like 'possible motives that I see are...'. But 'There is no conclusive evidence, etc.' simply is a non-answer, a waste of space, really.