Why the Gap?

[c.d.]

Or it could simply be that he didn't feel the "motivation" to kill on a fixed schedule.

c.d

[caz]

Hi George,

I think he was, but isn't the timing wrong for this to be Kosminski? I suppose he may have been taken there more than once, though, so I suppose we can't rule him out (but of course, there were a lot of people in London, so without anything more to go on the odds are against it). And yes, if a wound became septic it could very well be fatal. I just can't see MJK as being a copycat situation, the injuries in the global sense are a repeat of the previous victims in nature, with the increase reflecting the fact he's got more time and more privacy. While we talk a lot about interruption in the Stride case, I think there's indications of possible interruption in the Nichols case (by the arrival of Cross/Lechmere and Paul, or at least Paul if one thinks Cross/Lechmere is JtR), the Eddowes case (PC Harvey on his patrol, or Morris opening the door during cleaning, take your pick), Chapman (all the activity in the yard next door, and he's trapped at that point and can't flee; when he gets away with it after Cadoche's 2nd visit he's probably feeling invisible), and of course Stride. Meaning, there is the possibility that Mary is the only case where he isn't interrupted (of course, there are debates around all of those, I'm just noting that the idea of interruption cannot be entirely dismissed in any of the cases other than Mary).

Perhaps then, therein lies the explanation for "the gap"? If by then he's had 4 close calls already, he may be adopting a more cautious attitude, and combined with the increased police presence, and the more cautious attitude of his potential victims, we're back to reduced opportunity?

- Jeff

Coming late to the 'mind the gap' party...

Before I reached the above post by Jeff just now, I was thinking a likely explanation was the fact that he'd had such close calls each time, and may well have feared his great good luck was due to run out if he pushed it again in the immediate wake of a double murder, when the police were redoubling their efforts to find him. Might he also have needed a longer 'cooling off' period after killing two in one night, and the time to reflect on what he'd already achieved and how not to throw it all away by being too impatient?

As I believe he did kill MJK, and would have been glad enough of the opportunity she gave him to do it indoors, as autumn was fast turning to winter, I doubt he first had to recover from a knife wound turned septic after Mitre Square. In those days this would have been difficult enough to treat and recover from, never mind hide from everyone around him. It would have been life-threatening, even if treated quickly, but also life-threatening if he drew attention to it and had to lie about how it happened.

Love,

Caz
X

[Herlock Sholmes]

If he injured himself during the Eddowes murder I think he must have recovered by the time of the Kelly murder. Hmmm, another thought, if he did, and allowing for a month for the cut to heal, perhaps the "gap" also reflects the fact that cuts to the hand might be viewed as highly suspicious at that time and he's laying low for that reason?

- Jeff

Yeah, that’s another way of looking at it Jeff.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

HI Losmandris,

I tend towards the same thing. Patrols were ramped up and panic had set in, starting with Chapman but even more once the first "Jack The Ripper" letters were published. After that, the chance for an opportunity goes down, and the gap may simply reflect that. Obviously there are other possibilities, but that is so a simple explanation, reflecting the consequences of the changes in police activity and public atmosphere, that I'm not sure we need anything more than that.

- Jeff

I can't remember whether it was on this thread that I mentioned it, but the gap and final murder remind me of two other murder cases: the Hammersmith nude murders and the Bible John murders in Glasgow.

In the Hammersmith case, it was only after the penultimate murder that a description of the murderer was obtained.

The witness was threatened and an attempt was made to kill her.

in the final murder in the series, for the first time, the murderer did not dump the body.

in the Bible John case, 3 murders were committed, with all three victims being picked up at the same dancehall and murdered shortly after they left.

it was only then that panic set in among those who frequented the dancehall and there were no more murders.

Curiously, there was a huge gap in between the first and second murder.

[JeffHamm]

Maybe he injured himself during the Eddowes murder but he felt that it had healed sufficiently by November 9th and then the wound opened up again during the Kelly murder? A murder indoors might have been more manageable for an injured man but it’s hard to imagine the killer vetting potential victims to see if they had their own rooms.

If he injured himself during the Eddowes murder I think he must have recovered by the time of the Kelly murder. Hmmm, another thought, if he did, and allowing for a month for the cut to heal, perhaps the "gap" also reflects the fact that cuts to the hand might be viewed as highly suspicious at that time and he's laying low for that reason?

- Jeff

[JeffHamm]

Hi Jeff,

My first thought was a cut that had become infected, but then I realised that it could also have been odd behaviour. Wasn't Kosminski taken to an infirmary for that reason? For those who think that MJK wasn't a ripper victim (I'm not entirely convinced) there is the real possibility that an infected wound of that nature in those days may have turned septic and been fatal. A search of the death records might also provide some badly needed new information.

Best regards, George

Hi George,

I think he was, but isn't the timing wrong for this to be Kosminski? I suppose he may have been taken there more than once, though, so I suppose we can't rule him out (but of course, there were a lot of people in London, so without anything more to go on the odds are against it). And yes, if a wound became septic it could very well be fatal. I just can't see MJK as being a copycat situation, the injuries in the global sense are a repeat of the previous victims in nature, with the increase reflecting the fact he's got more time and more privacy. While we talk a lot about interruption in the Stride case, I think there's indications of possible interruption in the Nichols case (by the arrival of Cross/Lechmere and Paul, or at least Paul if one thinks Cross/Lechmere is JtR), the Eddowes case (PC Harvey on his patrol, or Morris opening the door during cleaning, take your pick), Chapman (all the activity in the yard next door, and he's trapped at that point and can't flee; when he gets away with it after Cadoche's 2nd visit he's probably feeling invisible), and of course Stride. Meaning, there is the possibility that Mary is the only case where he isn't interrupted (of course, there are debates around all of those, I'm just noting that the idea of interruption cannot be entirely dismissed in any of the cases other than Mary).

Perhaps then, therein lies the explanation for "the gap"? If by then he's had 4 close calls already, he may be adopting a more cautious attitude, and combined with the increased police presence, and the more cautious attitude of his potential victims, we're back to reduced opportunity?

- Jeff

[Dickere]

Maybe he injured himself during the Eddowes murder but he felt that it had healed sufficiently by November 9th and then the wound opened up again during the Kelly murder? A murder indoors might have been more manageable for an injured man but it’s hard to imagine the killer vetting potential victims to see if they had their own rooms.

Vetting, no, but MJK may have volunteered the info unsolicited, so to speak.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Maybe he injured himself during the Eddowes murder but he felt that it had healed sufficiently by November 9th and then the wound opened up again during the Kelly murder? A murder indoors might have been more manageable for an injured man but it’s hard to imagine the killer vetting potential victims to see if they had their own rooms.

[GBinOz]

Hi George,

These reports are tantalizing, but like so much, a lot that we need to know is not actually reported (like why is this person in the infirmary in the first place? It doesn't say he has any cuts on himself, only that the police became interested because of his suspicious behaviour - note, not because of a suspicious injury! So there's no indication he's got any wounds at all, just that he's acting odd).

- Jeff

Hi Jeff,

My first thought was a cut that had become infected, but then I realised that it could also have been odd behaviour. Wasn't Kosminski taken to an infirmary for that reason? For those who think that MJK wasn't a ripper victim (I'm not entirely convinced) there is the real possibility that an infected wound of that nature in those days may have turned septic and been fatal. A search of the death records might also provide some badly needed new information.

Best regards, George

[JeffHamm]

This might have slowed him up:

The Star, 12 October, 1888
"A Suspicious Infirmary Patient.
A report was current late last night that the police suspect a man who is at present a patient in an East-end infirmary. He has been admitted since the commission of the last murder. Owing to his suspicious behavior their attention was directed to him. Detectives are making inquiries, and he is kept under surveillance."

Sheffield Evening Telegraph 12 October, 1888
"... The police now have under close observation in connection with the Whitechapel murder a man now inmate of the East End infirmary who was admitted since the murder under suspicious circumstances."

Hampshire Advertiser, 13 October, 1888
"A report was current late last night that the police have good reasons to suspect a man who is at present a patient in an East End Infirmary. He was admitted since the commission of the last murder, and owing to his suspicious behaviour and other circumstances the attention of the authorities was directed to him. Detectives are making inquiries relative to his actions before being admitted to the infirmary, and he is kept under constant and close surveillance."

Hi George,

I've thought along those lines a few times myself; the "did he cut himself and get an infection after Eddowes" type thing. The idea coming from the signs he may have wiped his hands on the apron piece, possibly after cutting himself (not uncommon in knife attacks), and given the feacal matter present that easily could lead to infection putting him out of action for a month. While I don't think any such explanation is necessary given it's not a long gap in the bigger picture and that the "gap" can be explained by very mundane things (just couldn't find a victim due to the atmosphere of panic and increased police presence at the time), that doesn't preclude considering ideas that emerge from the evidence we do have.

These reports are tantalizing, but like so much, a lot that we need to know is not actually reported (like why is this person in the infirmary in the first place? It doesn't say he has any cuts on himself, only that the police became interested because of his suspicious behaviour - note, not because of a suspicious injury! So there's no indication he's got any wounds at all, just that he's acting odd).

Still, it would be interesting if the records for the East End Infirmary still existed. There could be something interesting if one looked at the admission records for that time period. I do think if any headway ever gets made it will only occur after new information comes to light; the current information from inquests and newspapers, etc, is just too sparse.

- Jeff

[Fiver]

This might have slowed him up:

The Star, 12 October, 1888
"A Suspicious Infirmary Patient.
A report was current late last night that the police suspect a man who is at present a patient in an East-end infirmary. He has been admitted since the commission of the last murder. Owing to his suspicious behavior their attention was directed to him. Detectives are making inquiries, and he is kept under surveillance."

Sheffield Evening Telegraph 12 October, 1888
"... The police now have under close observation in connection with the Whitechapel murder a man now inmate of the East End infirmary who was admitted since the murder under suspicious circumstances."

Hampshire Advertiser, 13 October, 1888
"A report was current late last night that the police have good reasons to suspect a man who is at present a patient in an East End Infirmary. He was admitted since the commission of the last murder, and owing to his suspicious behaviour and other circumstances the attention of the authorities was directed to him. Detectives are making inquiries relative to his actions before being admitted to the infirmary, and he is kept under constant and close surveillance."

Interesting. I'm guessing this patient was not identified.

[GBinOz]

HI Losmandris,

I tend towards the same thing. Patrols were ramped up and panic had set in, starting with Chapman but even more once the first "Jack The Ripper" letters were published. After that, the chance for an opportunity goes down, and the gap may simply reflect that. Obviously there are other possibilities, but that is so a simple explanation, reflecting the consequences of the changes in police activity and public atmosphere, that I'm not sure we need anything more than that.

- Jeff

This might have slowed him up:

The Star, 12 October, 1888
"A Suspicious Infirmary Patient.
A report was current late last night that the police suspect a man who is at present a patient in an East-end infirmary. He has been admitted since the commission of the last murder. Owing to his suspicious behavior their attention was directed to him. Detectives are making inquiries, and he is kept under surveillance."

Sheffield Evening Telegraph 12 October, 1888
"... The police now have under close observation in connection with the Whitechapel murder a man now inmate of the East End infirmary who was admitted since the murder under suspicious circumstances."

Hampshire Advertiser, 13 October, 1888
"A report was current late last night that the police have good reasons to suspect a man who is at present a patient in an East End Infirmary. He was admitted since the commission of the last murder, and owing to his suspicious behaviour and other circumstances the attention of the authorities was directed to him. Detectives are making inquiries relative to his actions before being admitted to the infirmary, and he is kept under constant and close surveillance."

[DJA]

I agree.

I believe I commented previously that I once read that it was reported in newspapers

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

HI Losmandris,

I tend towards the same thing. Patrols were ramped up and panic had set in, starting with Chapman but even more once the first "Jack The Ripper" letters were published. After that, the chance for an opportunity goes down, and the gap may simply reflect that. Obviously there are other possibilities, but that is so a simple explanation, reflecting the consequences of the changes in police activity and public atmosphere, that I'm not sure we need anything more than that.

- Jeff

I agree.

I believe I commented previously that I once read that it was reported in newspapers, at the time, that prostitutes took to walking in pairs following the double murder.

One can imagine what effect that would have had upon the murderer.

I imagine in those circumstances he wouldn't have approached any of them.

I don't know whether many were still walking in pairs by the time of the final murder, but it seems that he decided he wouldn't risk committing another murder outdoors.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Hi PI1,

I've drifted from the topic with my posts, so I'll try to keep this short. There are some discussions on the stomach contents and the progression of rigor on these boards (again, I forget which threads exactly, but under Chapman I believe). In the end, both are consistent with either time of death (meaning they do not rule out the 5:25ish ToD), so again, we're left with making no decision, and so going no further in our speculations, or taking our picks and crossing our fingers. If you're right, I'm wrong, and vice-versa. Who's to say?

- Jeff

Yes.

I know.

There is no universal agreement about how long it takes for a potato to be digested, but based on my research, I would say that there seems to be a consensus that it tastes about an hour.

I find this plausible because it isn't protein nor a food that is considered difficult to digest.

There is another consideration and that is that unlike in Miller's Court, he was outdoors, and he knew that both prostitutes and residents used that yard, and the later it got, the more likely it was that a resident would enter the yard.

It was too risky for him to have gone into it at about 5.30, especially as he was much more likely to have been noticed when leaving.