Left or right handed.

[Michael W Richards]

The benefit of believing that the evidence in the Canonical Murders reveals different knives were used, different skills were shown, and different results were achieved, it allows for some theorizing that likely different killers were involved within those five killings, rather than just looking for a single lone killer changing basic skill sets, apparent objectives and foundation actions at will.

Like an argument that says in Millers Court its still Jack, but he is now also left handed, and isnt interested in obtaining female internal anatomy anymore. The surgical kinds of cuts made on Annie were no longer needed, and he could just slash and cut and slash and cut at will.

Does the fact that Mary is butchered in ways that have nothing to do with what he eventually extracted and took, that do not resemble medical student knowledge or skills.... not put into serious question whether this was the same killer as Annies, for example? Instead of finding excuses for the differences, maybe use them as some preliminary evidence that these were different men?

So you can look at something at face value, rather than suggesting some hypothetical reason why these differences are there. Like hypothesizing Strides killer was interrupted to explain the total absence of Ripper-like knife work, or suggesting the man in room 13 was still Jack but now demonstrating ambidextrous talents, despite the fact that only this one 'Ripper" crime scene suggests a left handed man, and no others have any foundation for exhibited ambidextrous actions.

The desire to maintain this 5 victim Canonical Group and a single lone madman despite evidence that suggests the contrary is I believe influenced by a fear of reprisals and an easily satisfied curiosity.

[Michael W Richards]

I think he was right handed.
I think the throats were cut from behind, allowing him to keep the chin down while he lowered them to the floor preventing the blood from spraying and the fact that both Nichols and Chapman were laid down with their left side towards a wall or fence made ripping "Upwards" the more likely option for a lefty, while inserting the blade higher up the torso and drawinng it downward is the optimum position for a rightykneeling on the right sideof the body. I don't think he cut upwards.

I've struggled to find a definitive position for Eddowes' body position in Mitre Square as there seems to be some discrepancies and I find it hard to poinpoint exactly what position she was in. I'd appreciate it if someone can point to me to a definitive description. As it stands the best I can come up with is that her head was toward the corner and her feet towards the square... (Mitre Square, and the "double event" in general are not my strong suit...)

In my opinion Stride wasn't intended to be one of his "subjects" at the time he killed her. Even for the risk-taker he clearly was, that spot was ludicrously dangerous to attempt his work. I don't believe he was interrupted by the horse, but rather by Stride herself. I think he tried to lure her away, she became either angry or suspicious, maybe said "You are that man who is killing all those women!" and he killed her to shut her up, and legged it.

Of course Kelly had her right side toward the wall, but that was an entirely different set of circumstances in terms of what freedoms he had to go about his business...

I believe that a few of the murders that have been "Canonized" reveal circumstantial evidence the suggests right hand dominance at the very least. Using that same kind of formula and filter, the murder in Millers Court appears to have been more likely a left handed killer based on the circumstantial evidence..."freedom of movement" as you suggest in that last line would mean that a right handed killer could have moved the bed from the wall, correct? Or he could have turned the bed 90 degrees from the partition wall and had both sides to work from. But she was simply attacked while on her right side facing the partition wall, oriented to the right upper side of the bed. To cut her throat with a right hand held knife means lifting her head and sliding the hand under, or leaning almost onto and across her to access the throat with his right hand. But, not a problem if as you say, he had certain "freedoms" in room 13 and could adjust the body position for a more advantageous angle of attack for his right hand. He didnt do that though, did he? He just worked from the side and angles that was given to him, and that almost certainly makes him left handed imho.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Hi Lewis
Here is an article on the subject

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-433138/Left-handers-better-sport-edge-given-faster-reactions-say-scientists.html

Regards Darryl

[Lewis C]

Hi Lewis
i think I read somewhere that left handed people are supposed to have slightly faster reflexes , [minutely of course ]. Hence southpaw boxers, a lot of left handed batsmen in cricket and a high proportion in fencing. All sports where fast reflexes would be an advantage for example.

Regards Darryl

Hi Darryl,

That's interesting. It's also the case that a disproportionate number of hitters in major league baseball are left-handed. I've always attributed that to the fact that most pitchers are right-handed, and it's easier for a left-handed hitter to hit a curveball thrown by a right-handed pitcher than it is for a right-handed hitter. I still think that's the main reason, but the slightly faster reflexes might also be a contributing factor for so many left-handed hitters.

[JeffHamm]

Thanks, Jeff. Do you know if having more of the language function in the right hemisphere tends to have any practical effects on a person's life that can be recognized by other people, if the person hasn't had a stroke?

There's no noticeable difference in terms of language ability, developmental time course, etc.

- Jeff

[Darryl Kenyon]

Hi John,

I don't know the answer, but if no one else has the answer, then I have a broader question: is there any way in which left handers tend to be different from right handers, other than for things directly related to their left or right handedness?

Hi Lewis
i think I read somewhere that left handed people are supposed to have slightly faster reflexes , [minutely of course ]. Hence southpaw boxers, a lot of left handed batsmen in cricket and a high proportion in fencing. All sports where fast reflexes would be an advantage for example.

Regards Darryl

[Lewis C]

I can't think of anything off the top of my head that might apply to crime or serial killing, but a greater proportion of left handers will have more language processing in their right hemisphere compared to right handers. In the brain, language tends to be more a function of the left hemisphere in most people, which results in a greater risk for language impairments following left hemisphere strokes compared to right hemisphere strokes. However, left handers have a greater number of people where their language functions are greater in their right hemisphere, and so may be spared severe language deficits following a left hemisphere stroke (in language related areas of course). It's not every left hander, though (it is not a guarantee), and I don't recall the percentages.

Also, for most, and probably everyone except very unusual cases (usually involving some form of brain damage), the right hemisphere is not unable to process language entirely, although it usually has little involvement in speech.

While there is a very large amount of overlap, the tendency is for left handers to be slightly more symmetrical in brain structures, but you need to compare a lot of brains and the overlap would make it nigh on impossible to determine if someone was left or right handed just by looking at brain asymmetry.

- Jeff

Thanks, Jeff. Do you know if having more of the language function in the right hemisphere tends to have any practical effects on a person's life that can be recognized by other people, if the person hasn't had a stroke?

[JeffHamm]

Hi John,

I don't know the answer, but if no one else has the answer, then I have a broader question: is there any way in which left handers tend to be different from right handers, other than for things directly related to their left or right handedness?

I can't think of anything off the top of my head that might apply to crime or serial killing, but a greater proportion of left handers will have more language processing in their right hemisphere compared to right handers. In the brain, language tends to be more a function of the left hemisphere in most people, which results in a greater risk for language impairments following left hemisphere strokes compared to right hemisphere strokes. However, left handers have a greater number of people where their language functions are greater in their right hemisphere, and so may be spared severe language deficits following a left hemisphere stroke (in language related areas of course). It's not every left hander, though (it is not a guarantee), and I don't recall the percentages.

Also, for most, and probably everyone except very unusual cases (usually involving some form of brain damage), the right hemisphere is not unable to process language entirely, although it usually has little involvement in speech.

While there is a very large amount of overlap, the tendency is for left handers to be slightly more symmetrical in brain structures, but you need to compare a lot of brains and the overlap would make it nigh on impossible to determine if someone was left or right handed just by looking at brain asymmetry.

- Jeff

[Lewis C]

Just a thought but I wonder what the data is on serial killers in terms of being right or left handed? Is it roughly the same as the general population? Maybe someone on the site knows? Or has some data?

Hi John,

I don't know the answer, but if no one else has the answer, then I have a broader question: is there any way in which left handers tend to be different from right handers, other than for things directly related to their left or right handedness?

[John Wheat]

Just a thought but I wonder what the data is on serial killers in terms of being right or left handed? Is it roughly the same as the general population? Maybe someone on the site knows? Or has some data?

[The Rookie Detective]

Same is true for the Polly Nichols murder St Devil.
The cuts across the throat were believed to be made from the killers right to left....
a left handed killer.

JtR was most likely either ambidextrous or left handed .... probably left handed due to the consistency.

Unless the killer is kneeling over Nichols and cuts her throat from the front to avoid blood splatter...then it could be a right handed cut.

Whether the killer was left or right handed is irrelevant until it can be determined the position the killer was in when he cut the victims throat.



RD

[Newbie]

well actually MWR…

in the murder of Catherine Eddowes, the post mortem reports:

We examined the abdomen. The front walls were laid open from the breast bones to the pubes. The cut commenced opposite the enciform cartilage. The incision went upwards, not penetrating the skin that was over the sternum. It then divided the enciform cartilage. The knife must have cut obliquely at the expense of that cartilage.

… which means, the cut was from right to left, from her pubic region up to her rib-cage, a cut made in a manner which might be more consistent with a murderer who could ALSO use his left-hand. He splits her enciform cartilage (xiphoid process) by his knife striking against it. [* it’s my belief that he cut through her colon at this point, her abdomen being thin, his blade NOT having to penetrate through abdominal fat like it did with Annie Chapman]

Now, based on other cuts made to her body, one could presume Jack the Ripper was primarily situated on her right-hand side throughout his frenzy… plus it would be the most advantageous position IF we take into consideration that this positioning would afford him the best lighting from within the Square.

However, i concede that noone knows IF he remained stationary throughout the murder; for all anyone knows, Jack the Ripper could have moved about the body while he made his cuts into her body.

*****

As an aside, Robert Liston (1794-1847) was a British surgeon described as "the fastest knife in the West End. He could amputate a leg in 2 & 1/2 minutes." He promoted the practice of fast surgeries as a means of alleviating excess pain to the patient. In his book Practical Surgery, Dr. Liston wrote that “a surgeon who could use each hand hand equally well… possesses great advantages.”

Without dismissing the possibility that Jack the Ripper MAY HAVE been a medical-man who MAY HAVE subscribed to Liston’s practice of ambidexterity…

Same is true for the Polly Nichols murder St Devil.
The cuts across the throat were believed to be made from the killers right to left....
a left handed killer.

JtR was most likely either ambidextrous or left handed .... probably left handed due to the consistency.

[Michael W Richards]

How do you think the Chapman situation would have played out with a lefty? Her left side against the fence and the insides pulled out to roughly to the left of the position he would have been kneeling to face the body?

I think he moved Annie a bit after he began strangling her and she bumped the fence Cadosche was on the other side of. By the by, I agree with the idea that Jack The Ripper murders began with asphyxiation/strangulation in some form. To the point of unconsciousness I wound imagine. The quiet reported by witnesses is really the determining factor there, they were cut off before they could utter a peep. Blitzkreig, a very effective way to catch your opponent off guard.

The point on Annies killer is that he moved the body so he had the angle and access he desired. In reality he might have had some room on either side of her to choose as the position of the knife attack, Annies left side was not against the fence. Mary was flipped back onto the middle of the bed, having been initially attacked while facing the partition wall, on her right side. We have the bedding stuffed down that side of the bed as well, which would prevent using that side to approach his target. We cant know for sure if Mary had thrown the blanket off due to the heat of the fire and the booze in her body, but I suspect it was there purposefully. One, to ensure the bed moved about less...squeaky furniture and floors dont ya know,....and 2, to muffle any sounds bumping the bed into the wall might cause.

But if I interpret the information correctly, Mary was most probably oriented on the right hand side of the bed, on her right side, facing the wall, when she is first attacked. Not with a strangulation attempt though, he got a blade under her chin and pulled back. Thats why I suggest the killer was almost certainly left handed, although I wouldnt rule out some capability with both hands. The odds are against him being truly ambidexterous are very large, its a minute segment of any given population.

[Robert St Devil]

…And from his position on the left hand side of the bed, cutting things with his left and removing them with his right seems to me anyway, the most probable.

…I agree with the theory that he choked/strangled/suffocated them, but I'm not sure he strangled them to death, merely unconsciousness.

I’d also accept /throttled/stifled/garotted/suffocated (maybe)/asphyxiated/{pondering} uh, muffled

Hello A P and MWR. Hello Dave Not Debs. Hello Debs Not Dave. Hello et al.

1. A P beat me to it, Michael… with his post questioning Jack the Ripper’s obvious positioning alongside Annie Chapman’s right-hand side versus his obvious positioning alongside Mary Jane Kelly’s left-hand side. I thought that my rationale was sound, of Jack the Ripper pulling Mary Kelly’s heart out from her thorax with his left hand WHILE he cut the attaching arterials with his right hand BUT NOW i am applying the same formulaic way of thinking to the removal of the uterus (hmm, well, attempting to apply). In both instances - Annie Chapman & Mary Kelly - the [uteruses|uteri] were removed, pointing out once again that Saucy Jacky was on opposing sides of each woman when he harvested this organ. The extent of my research on the anatomical location and depth of the uterus within the pelvis, i admit, has been limited to You Tube videos STILL the question lingers: would particular handedness have played a part in removing the uterus?
2. MWR, I have returned to the photos of the scene of the crime for Mary Kelly AND IF i could ever conclusively determine if that is her pelvis in the photograph THEN i might be able to determine that those white scratch marks (on the pelvis?) were probably made by the point of the knife AND THEN i might start to sway my opinion which hand he employed ALL WHILE realizing i have burned too much grey matter thinking about the subject FOR NOW i am leaving the subject as TBD [* It’s the photo with the doorknob in the upper left corner btw]
3. A P, There was a idiocy that schoolchildren performed on each other in my day of the 80s FROM THE LOOKS OF THINGS it is still going on to this day. All you need to do is simply google the Pass Out Challenge and you’ll find a variety of the idiocy in question. One student pushes up against the chest of another student (who is standing against a wall btw) until that 2nd student passes out, if not immediately than momentarily. I share this tale of idiocy because there is an aspect of Elizabeth Stride’s post mortem which baffles me THAT BEING the markings over the shoulder and under the collarbone NOW my presumption would be a person would wrap their murderous hands around another person’s neck IF they were trying to strangle them to death, i mean, have you ever heard of an instance of someone being throttled by way of having their shoulders pressed upon? [Even Annie Chapman had the appearance of thumbprints around her shoulder area.] Elizabeth Stride was found immediately beyond the [arc of the] swing of the gate WHICH would have been the best place to push her up against the wall IF Jack the Ripper was attempting this pressing method of rendering her unconscious, which leads me into…
4. My agreement with you A P. I believe that each of the victims was rendered unconscious to varying degrees of ‘nearness to death’. In the cases of Annie Chapman and Mary Kelly, the splatter of blood on the gate and wall respectively indicates that they had more pulse within them. In the cases of Polly Nicholls and Elizabeth Stride, the lack of splatterings indicates that their pulses were faint to nonexistent. Elizabeth Stride’s heart was filled with clot which may be further indication that her heart had cessated before he cut her throat. Pardon the counterpoint A P i do believe that the women were lying on the ground BEFORE he drew his knife across each of their throats. With Polly Nicholls and Elizabeth Stride, he first took off their bonnet. With Annie Chapman, the blood on the paling lined up with the cut to her throat. With Mary Kelly, he let her first bleed out against the far side of the bed, against the wall. For me AT LEAST i’m having a difficult time imagining this killer cutting the throat in a hasty attack or while the woman was falling to the ground or… well, any of the other popular beliefs.

All misspellings my own.

[A P Tomlinson]

In my opinion Stride wasn't intended to be one of his "subjects" at the time he killed her. Even for the risk-taker he clearly was, that spot was ludicrously dangerous to attempt his work. I don't believe he was interrupted by the horse, but rather by Stride herself. I think he tried to lure her away, she became either angry or suspicious, maybe said "You are that man who is killing all those women!" and he killed her to shut her up, and legged it.

Hello A.P.,

It sounds like you believe that B.S. man was her killer. Is that correct? If so, why do you think he felt it was necessary to kill her? To shut her up about what? Had he attempted to kill her at that point or just lure her away? Plus, if he was the B.S. man he had been seen by Schwartz and Pipe Man. So why kill her?

c.d.

I think there's a good chance it was him.
The scenario I imagine would be something along the lines of him attempting the approach he had used on the others to gain her attention and trust. She, in turn, wasn't interested either in him, (and wanted rid of him,) or going somewhere else and tried to seal the deal down Dutfields Yard. This was a place that was too dangerous for him to do his work, with all the people just inside the club. If not just the location and lack of egress, the noise from the club would have covered approaching footsteps. It's a terrible choice of location for even a risk taker like him.

There followed an argument, which escalated quickly and became violent.
Maybe he threatened her with the knife, or she caught a glimpseof the metal of the blade, or simply wanted to get rid of himt and started to become hysterical and call out. A short struggle begins, he over powers her covering her mouth to prevent further (louder) screaming and drags her into the darkness of the yard, cuts her throat dumps the body in the shadows, and makes a swift exit.

As to being seen by Pipeman and Schwartz, it would all depend on how many of them knew him. If Liz knew him, and made threats like "I'll have the law on you John Smith!" or raised the suggestion that he was the man who had "killed these four women" he would have little choice other than to silence her. But that situation is not one that lends itself to him being able to then carry out his methods and achieve his goal. There's also the fact that, regardless of acquaintance, she would have had a far better chance to get a GOOD look at him, sufficient to identify him.

I still think there is a distinct possibility that "Lipski" was "Lizzie!" and if it was, then the first-name-terms relationship would be ample reason to silence her.
And as far as pipeman goes, the simplest explanation is that he simply started walking once his pipe was lit, rather than being under some coded direction from an antisemitic murderer.