Left or right handed.

[A P Tomlinson]

On the Eddowes case his cutting position is critical to determining which hand is more probable, and I do get how the perspective on Mary Kellys mutilations does allow for a right hand, or both, to have been used. Now, think about the right leg. And the viscera under her head. And on the night table. These placements and actions along with the beds orientation suggest that a left handed killer would not have been disadvantaged by the right hand side of the bed abutting the partition wall. And from his position on the left hand side of the bed, cutting things with his left and removing them with his right seems to me anyway, the most probable.

How do you think the Chapman situation would have played out with a lefty? Her left side against the fence and the insides pulled out to roughly to the left of the position he would have been kneeling to face the body?

[A P Tomlinson]

With the possible exception of Mary Kelly, i’m OF THE OPINION that Jack the Ripper strangled these women before cutting their throats… for various reasons. One of these reasons shares the Nicholls and Stride scenes of the crimes in common. In both cases their bonnets were found aside their body MY INTERPRETATION is that he removed the bonnets after he had incapacitated these women and lowered their bodies to the ground. MY SUSPICION is that the strings of the bonnet tied under the chin AND THAT they impeded his need to cut her throat.

I agree with the theory that he choked/strangled/suffocated them, but I'm not sure he strangled them to death, merely unconsciousness. It's far quicker to choke them out, then as he's lowering them,to the ground from behind - draw the bled across the throat from left to right, you get a far stronger, more controlled pull with a knife from that position than cutting the throat from the front.

[Michael W Richards]

How do THOSE statistics stack up against being a organ-harvesting serial killer? Hi Michael. In truth, i don’t oppose your sequencing ALTHOUGH i don’t instantly dismiss ambidexterity from the equation simply because it’s a statistical anomaly AFTER ALL what is this case other than just that, a statistical anomaly ALBEIT a historically phenomenal one.

The bruising on Polly Nicholls’ face supports the assertion that he was right-handed. The cut along Eddowes’ abdomen (which i mentioned a message ago) could support the assertion that he used his left-hand. And the murder of Mary Kelly might support the notion that Jack the Ripper used both hands since (as you mentioned) some of the cuts to her lower extremities would have been performed easier by the left-hand WHILE the cuts to her face and torso may have been more easily performed by the right hand {shrugs}

i will add THIS bit to your reasonings, MWR… i agree that Jack the Ripper was standing along the left-side of the bed WITH THAT BEING SAID it was probably more likely that he reached inside of her rib-cage with HIS left-hand to tear away her lungs and heart and…. hmm, no wait, pause everything…

…idea brewing up in the cabeza…

Mary Kelly’s post mortem said that her intercostals between her ribs were cut-through & the contents of the thorax were visible through the openings (much like looking through a window) SO MAYBE he tore as much of her lung away so that he could grab ahold of her heart (all with his left hand) AND THEN with his right hand he poked his knife into the openings in order to cut the heart away from its’ pulmonary arteries and veins.

On the Eddowes case his cutting position is critical to determining which hand is more probable, and I do get how the perspective on Mary Kellys mutilations does allow for a right hand, or both, to have been used. Now, think about the right leg. And the viscera under her head. And on the night table. These placements and actions along with the beds orientation suggest that a left handed killer would not have been disadvantaged by the right hand side of the bed abutting the partition wall. And from his position on the left hand side of the bed, cutting things with his left and removing them with his right seems to me anyway, the most probable.

[Robert St Devil]

I think he was right handed.
I think the throats were cut from behind, allowing him to keep the chin down while he lowered them to the floor...

With the possible exception of Mary Kelly, i’m OF THE OPINION that Jack the Ripper strangled these women before cutting their throats… for various reasons. One of these reasons shares the Nicholls and Stride scenes of the crimes in common. In both cases their bonnets were found aside their body MY INTERPRETATION is that he removed the bonnets after he had incapacitated these women and lowered their bodies to the ground. MY SUSPICION is that the strings of the bonnet tied under the chin AND THAT they impeded his need to cut her throat.

[Robert St Devil]

Robert,

Are you aware of the statistical chances of someone being truly ambidextrous? 1% of any given population.

How do THOSE statistics stack up against being a organ-harvesting serial killer? Hi Michael. In truth, i don’t oppose your sequencing ALTHOUGH i don’t instantly dismiss ambidexterity from the equation simply because it’s a statistical anomaly AFTER ALL what is this case other than just that, a statistical anomaly ALBEIT a historically phenomenal one.

The bruising on Polly Nicholls’ face supports the assertion that he was right-handed. The cut along Eddowes’ abdomen (which i mentioned a message ago) could support the assertion that he used his left-hand. And the murder of Mary Kelly might support the notion that Jack the Ripper used both hands since (as you mentioned) some of the cuts to her lower extremities would have been performed easier by the left-hand WHILE the cuts to her face and torso may have been more easily performed by the right hand {shrugs}

i will add THIS bit to your reasonings, MWR… i agree that Jack the Ripper was standing along the left-side of the bed WITH THAT BEING SAID it was probably more likely that he reached inside of her rib-cage with HIS left-hand to tear away her lungs and heart and…. hmm, no wait, pause everything…

…idea brewing up in the cabeza…

Mary Kelly’s post mortem said that her intercostals between her ribs were cut-through & the contents of the thorax were visible through the openings (much like looking through a window) SO MAYBE he tore as much of her lung away so that he could grab ahold of her heart (all with his left hand) AND THEN with his right hand he poked his knife into the openings in order to cut the heart away from its’ pulmonary arteries and veins.

[c.d.]

In my opinion Stride wasn't intended to be one of his "subjects" at the time he killed her. Even for the risk-taker he clearly was, that spot was ludicrously dangerous to attempt his work. I don't believe he was interrupted by the horse, but rather by Stride herself. I think he tried to lure her away, she became either angry or suspicious, maybe said "You are that man who is killing all those women!" and he killed her to shut her up, and legged it.

Hello A.P.,

It sounds like you believe that B.S. man was her killer. Is that correct? If so, why do you think he felt it was necessary to kill her? To shut her up about what? Had he attempted to kill her at that point or just lure her away? Plus, if he was the B.S. man he had been seen by Schwartz and Pipe Man. So why kill her?

c.d.

[A P Tomlinson]

I think he was right handed.
I think the throats were cut from behind, allowing him to keep the chin down while he lowered them to the floor preventing the blood from spraying and the fact that both Nichols and Chapman were laid down with their left side towards a wall or fence made ripping "Upwards" the more likely option for a lefty, while inserting the blade higher up the torso and drawinng it downward is the optimum position for a rightykneeling on the right sideof the body. I don't think he cut upwards.

I've struggled to find a definitive position for Eddowes' body position in Mitre Square as there seems to be some discrepancies and I find it hard to poinpoint exactly what position she was in. I'd appreciate it if someone can point to me to a definitive description. As it stands the best I can come up with is that her head was toward the corner and her feet towards the square... (Mitre Square, and the "double event" in general are not my strong suit...)

In my opinion Stride wasn't intended to be one of his "subjects" at the time he killed her. Even for the risk-taker he clearly was, that spot was ludicrously dangerous to attempt his work. I don't believe he was interrupted by the horse, but rather by Stride herself. I think he tried to lure her away, she became either angry or suspicious, maybe said "You are that man who is killing all those women!" and he killed her to shut her up, and legged it.

Of course Kelly had her right side toward the wall, but that was an entirely different set of circumstances in terms of what freedoms he had to go about his business...

[Michael W Richards]

well actually MWR…

in the murder of Catherine Eddowes, the post mortem reports:

We examined the abdomen. The front walls were laid open from the breast bones to the pubes. The cut commenced opposite the enciform cartilage. The incision went upwards, not penetrating the skin that was over the sternum. It then divided the enciform cartilage. The knife must have cut obliquely at the expense of that cartilage.

… which means, the cut was from right to left, from her pubic region up to her rib-cage, a cut made in a manner which might be more consistent with a murderer who could ALSO use his left-hand. He splits her enciform cartilage (xiphoid process) by his knife striking against it. [* it’s my belief that he cut through her colon at this point, her abdomen being thin, his blade NOT having to penetrate through abdominal fat like it did with Annie Chapman]

Now, based on other cuts made to her body, one could presume Jack the Ripper was primarily situated on her right-hand side throughout his frenzy… plus it would be the most advantageous position IF we take into consideration that this positioning would afford him the best lighting from within the Square.

However, i concede that noone knows IF he remained stationary throughout the murder; for all anyone knows, Jack the Ripper could have moved about the body while he made his cuts into her body.

*****

As an aside, Robert Liston (1794-1847) was a British surgeon described as "the fastest knife in the West End. He could amputate a leg in 2 & 1/2 minutes." He promoted the practice of fast surgeries as a means of alleviating excess pain to the patient. In his book Practical Surgery, Dr. Liston wrote that “a surgeon who could use each hand hand equally well… possesses great advantages.”

Without dismissing the possibility that Jack the Ripper MAY HAVE been a medical-man who MAY HAVE subscribed to Liston’s practice of ambidexterity…

Robert,

Are you aware of the statistical chances of someone being truly ambidextrous? 1% of any given population. I would also remind you that when the cutting is being done in Millers Court, it is being done from the left side of the bed. How convenient would it be for a right handed killer to be on the victims left side while cutting into the inside of her left thigh,...there are several issues facing a right handed killer in that room, under those circumstances. Bed pushed up to the wall for one. One that just came to mind is that if he is using his left hand, the angle of his body might allow for him to see a bit of the window or door, a right handed killer would have his back to the door the whole time.

[Geddy2112]

Looking at the his picture Crossmere was right handed, so erm JtR was right handed and the torso murderer..

[Robert St Devil]

All in all, a left handed killer is indicated here. And only in this Canonical murder.

well actually MWR…

in the murder of Catherine Eddowes, the post mortem reports:

We examined the abdomen. The front walls were laid open from the breast bones to the pubes. The cut commenced opposite the enciform cartilage. The incision went upwards, not penetrating the skin that was over the sternum. It then divided the enciform cartilage. The knife must have cut obliquely at the expense of that cartilage.

… which means, the cut was from right to left, from her pubic region up to her rib-cage, a cut made in a manner which might be more consistent with a murderer who could ALSO use his left-hand. He splits her enciform cartilage (xiphoid process) by his knife striking against it. [* it’s my belief that he cut through her colon at this point, her abdomen being thin, his blade NOT having to penetrate through abdominal fat like it did with Annie Chapman]

Now, based on other cuts made to her body, one could presume Jack the Ripper was primarily situated on her right-hand side throughout his frenzy… plus it would be the most advantageous position IF we take into consideration that this positioning would afford him the best lighting from within the Square.

However, i concede that noone knows IF he remained stationary throughout the murder; for all anyone knows, Jack the Ripper could have moved about the body while he made his cuts into her body.

*****

As an aside, Robert Liston (1794-1847) was a British surgeon described as "the fastest knife in the West End. He could amputate a leg in 2 & 1/2 minutes." He promoted the practice of fast surgeries as a means of alleviating excess pain to the patient. In his book Practical Surgery, Dr. Liston wrote that “a surgeon who could use each hand hand equally well… possesses great advantages.”

Without dismissing the possibility that Jack the Ripper MAY HAVE been a medical-man who MAY HAVE subscribed to Liston’s practice of ambidexterity…

[Michael W Richards]

Easy enough to pull Kelly up by the hair with the left hand and slice with the right. There's no need to worry about leverage there. Any number of arguments might be made to go for either right or left handedness. To go with left simply to make Kelly's murderer different than the one who did the others, seems to be the purpose here. Not with you, but as a general idea. It absolutely isn't something that can be proved and so, should be excluded from arguments.

You seem to picture Kelly lying on her right side completely and unable to raise her head or to have her head raised enough so that someone could get a knife hand around her from behind. As I've shown, this is easily dealt with and she may have been sitting up for all we know.

Cheers,

Mike

I believe that all the evidence there once assessed left the impression with investigators that she was alligned on the right hand side of the bed, facing the partition wall, when attacked. The blood on the partition wall was believed to be arterial spray, not collateral blood splatter. Its believed the killer moved her onto her back in the middle of the bed to begin the mutilations. If she was lying on her right side, facing away from her killer...as was deduced from the crime scene evidence, it indicates that its likely the killer was expected to get into bed with her on the left side. There is no room between the bed and the wall on the right side anyway, There is a lot of blood on the upper right hand side of the bed, consistent with the arterial cut being made while her head was at that upper right hand point.

That said, there is little if any evidence that the killer lifted her head by her hair to cut her, and there is little that might support a belief that he was in bed with her with his right hand around her neck or chest, from under her. Even if that were seen in the evidence, its unlikely he would have had the knife already in his right hand with his arm around her to draw back across the neck. We also have defensive wounds on her hands and arms. She likely turned and flailed at the attacker when she realized what had happened.

All in all, a left handed killer is indicated here. And only in this Canonical murder.

[rjpalmer]

Does anyone know who this Karyo Magellan was, professional credentials?
I know he wrote one Ripper book, but I cannot find his biography anywhere.

Regards, Jon S.

Your question goes way back, but I don't see where anyone answered it, Jon.

I read (in a description of the book by a bookseller) that Karyo Magellan was a pseudonym, but the person's real name or credentials were not identified.

Recently, I saw a copy of his book for sale, inscribed by the author, who identified himself only as "Paul."

Someone must know, but I don't.

[The Good Michael]

But try and get leverage with that knife in that position, assuming thats how it was placed across Marys throat. He has to pull inwards before he pulls straight back on the knife,.... unless it was incredibly sharp.

Easy enough to pull Kelly up by the hair with the left hand and slice with the right. There's no need to worry about leverage there. Any number of arguments might be made to go for either right or left handedness. To go with left simply to make Kelly's murderer different than the one who did the others, seems to be the purpose here. Not with you, but as a general idea. It absolutely isn't something that can be proved and so, should be excluded from arguments.

You seem to picture Kelly lying on her right side completely and unable to raise her head or to have her head raised enough so that someone could get a knife hand around her from behind. As I've shown, this is easily dealt with and she may have been sitting up for all we know.

Cheers,

Mike

[RivkahChaya]

If an infant has left hemisphere damage, language areas can actually reform, but there is a tiny window for that. The problem is that it's unusual to have heavy damage to a specific area, and no damage to other areas, but it does happen.

Cross-dominance often happens when a person sees much better with the opposite eye. If I have to sketch something in the distance, even when I'm wearing my glasses, I can do it left-handed, and it has to do with my left eye having better vision than my right eye. It's just tuned better, somehow, and fatigues less easily (also, when I get migraines, they are on the right side).

Judging by the number of lefties in my family, there's a pretty good chance I don't have the right-hand gene, and because I have a child who is a lefty, if I have the gene, I have only one.

[Errata]

As far as people with the gene, all things being equal, those people will be right-handed, but brain trauma to the left hemisphere often produces lefties who write with the "hook," as opposed to lefties whose pencil grip mirrors righties. A damaged right hand from or near birth, on the other hand, with no brain damage, usually produces a left-hander with "normal" writing style (one that mirrors right-handers), and better penmanship than the "hook" writers.
.

Well, language and writing are also in majority left brain activities, so left hemisphere damage also affects the ability to write at all, never mind the hand they do it with. But because there is cross brain activity, assuming there is no actual severance, people can adapt. Although I will say that the people I have worked with who had left brain trauma and were right handed had a much harder time trying to adapt than lefties.

Genetics really just affects right left symmetry, not actual handedness, although clearly handedness is a big part of right left symmetry. Although oddly enough, left handedness tends to be hereditary, where right handedness pops up anywhere. So while there may be a gene that creates righties, it's the lack of that gene that has far more direct consequence.

And as always, in 20 years all of this may prove to be wrong.

And of course, since 30% of the population is cross dominant despite their handedness, there's actually a significant change that whatever hand the killer wrote with had no bearing of what hand he used to wield a knife in different positions.