The Indents in the GSG

[Sam Flynn]

I am no architect, so I am not sure one way or the other but this is from Wikipedia - In architecture, the dado is the lower part of a wall,^[1] below the dado rail and above the skirting board. The word is borrowed from Italian meaning "die" (as an architectural term) or plinth.

Yes, but when we had a "dado" put into the living room of our previous house, it was a strip going around the wall, dividing the lower part from the upper. In that sense, "dado" was being used to mean a "dado rail" - an expression I haven't often heard, as "dado" usually suffices to get the meaning across. Then again, that might be a more recent generalisation/shorthand.

[Curious Cat]

Charles Warren was there himself and he said the GSG was on the door jamb meaning of course the post and could be seen by passers by.

Obviously at night on a London Street in 1888, it would be almost invisible as it was a 3/4 inch high, parallel and hardly wider than the mortar. It would barely be readable or even noticeable in the daytime, even if it was white on black being so finely written with something like tailor chalk

There's no wiggle room here. I don't know if the misinformation came from the dramatizations, the movies or people assume Warren was lying or what. Obviously you'd make it big and bold for a dramatic representation. It's just not the reality according to Warren, and even according to the 5 line version in the memo which doesn't make sense when you have a large wall to work with.



The most even spacing example does allow for the shortest lines with 18 characters and spaces to be almost manageable on the full width of the post. The second line would need to be broken but the author broke two lines.

Having now read Charles Warren's letter I note that it was confidential and written to expand on a verbal conversation with someone else. It's hard to tell which of the details he has already given verbally to Mr Matthews and which is fresh information put forward to the Home Secretary. Given his position at the time and the pressure building on him it's open to interpretation of whether all the details are as it was or he's after saving his skin a little as the decision to rub off the graffiti was widely criticised.

So the copy shown on this thread is actually Warren's duplicate or a copy of it?

May just be me but I find it odd that a piece of graffiti that was made to goad/incite Jewish people in the area was rubbed out for fear it cause others to attack Jews on masse instead. Why would anyone attack Jews and/or wreck the building for graffiti that was making a jab at them in the first place?

[Curious Cat]

According to Halse, it was on a black dado. He specifically says "dado", which would be odd if it weren't indeed a dado; namely, a comparatively narrow, decorative strip part-way up a wall, dividing the lower section from the upper.



So, rather than a whole wall, perhaps the writer had less (vertical) room to work with, using the black dado to get better contrast with the white chalk. Taking Halse's "three lines" and applying the idea that the copy in the Home Office memo was "word-wrapped", we could be looking at something like this:

Halse says the line between the white bricks and the black bricks made a kind of dado rail, so it wasn't an actual dado rail in place.

[Sam Flynn]

Halse says the line between the white bricks and the black bricks made a kind of dado rail, so it wasn't an actual dado rail in place.

We didn't have an actual dado rail either; it was just a strip of wallpaper that divided the wall. We still called it "the dado", though. Not that it matters much, I suppose.

[Trapperologist]

The lower part of the wall and post were painted or gessoed black to cover up stains. Dado seems like the appropriate word. Some pictures have the entire post blackened but it was probably only half black in the day.

[Trapperologist]

Here's my best representations of the GSG, altered from an online Fantasy Flight Games image, contrasted for darkness of the black bricks, and the left one with the letters shrunken to the approximate correct size. The bricks were probably smoother and flat black but I still think they're a fair representation and until there's a better one, these should do. Either way, I think it changes the ballgame.

[Trapperologist]

....May just be me but I find it odd that a piece of graffiti that was made to goad/incite Jewish people in the area was rubbed out for fear it cause others to attack Jews on masse instead. Why would anyone attack Jews and/or wreck the building for graffiti that was making a jab at them in the first place?

It must be remembered that Warren saw Masonic significance to two inverted Vs in an underground chamber in Jerusalem. We cannot but surmise that he thought there might be some Masonic significance to numerous elements of the Eddowes Murder and the GSG, real or not.

It's a little bit beside the point unless there are elements that could at least be interpreted as Masonic by someone like Warren, with regard to the structure of the GSG, that we're not aware of.

[Trapperologist]

It definitely happens, and I've frequently used it myself. It shows that the overspill belongs to the line above rather than its being the start of a new line.

Since the spill over in this case isn't the end of the previous line but a continuation or a middle part, then it doesn't make sense as an explanation for the GSG structure.

But I can see how it would be interpreted, by Halse and whomever, as being 3 lines when he in fact it was 5 actual ones. He wasn't interested in the structure but the content of the lines so he simplified it to 3 lines.

PS. DC Halse's 3 line version and even PC Long's two line version are not compatible with the entryway post. Halse's version is being touted but even that has crazier indents. He's the real poet here. Or maybe not. Does anyone think Warren was lying about the "door jamb" and Halse's indented version is correct?

[Curious Cat]

We didn't have an actual dado rail either; it was just a strip of wallpaper that divided the wall. We still called it "the dado", though. Not that it matters much, I suppose.

I meant that the wall was flat and just divided by the black and white bricks. There wasn't anything between acting as a dado so the writing had all the space of the wall below the line.

[Curious Cat]

Since the spill over in this case isn't the end of the previous line but a continuation or a middle part, then it doesn't make sense as an explanation for the GSG structure.

But I can see how it would be interpreted, by Halse and whomever, as being 3 lines when he in fact it was 5 actual ones. He wasn't interested in the structure but the content of the lines so he simplified it to 3 lines.

PS. DC Halse's 3 line version and even PC Long's two line version are not compatible with the entryway post. Halse's version is being touted but even that has crazier indents. He's the real poet here. Or maybe not. Does anyone think Warren was lying about the "door jamb" and Halse's indented version is correct?

It's a single sentence which Halse described as being written across 3 lines on the wall. As far as I can tell, each copy of the graffiti is a bid to record the wording rather than the layout as it was seen. I'm not sure how Halse can have mistook the number of lines as it appeared on the wall.

Warren was ultimately the one who ordered the rubbing out of the graffiti at the point it was and it was a move that was highly criticised. It was a confidential letter to the Home Secretary where he had to justify his decision. He's clearly said something to this Mr Matthews and is now embellishing on what he said when asked by the HS to explain himself suggesting he's still not given a satisfactory account more than a month on from the incident. The nod to the acting chief Rabbi does come across a bit like, 'Well this guy agreed with me in private so, y'know, I was right, yeah.' It's possible he may have said the graffiti was on the jamb to give the impression it was more visible to the public than it was to justify the order to rub it off.

But again, the writing was aimed at Jewish people. I don't see, even with the proximity of the apron piece, what about the graffiti would actually prompt a riot towards the Jewish people in the area or the wreaking of the dwelling. It's like, if a block of flats housed mostly United FC fans and someone graffitied 'United FC fans are *****' that wouldn't prompt Rovers FC fans to attack the United fans and the flats. But if the graffiti said 'Rovers FC fans are *****' that would more likely prompt reprisals and an attack on the United fans by the Rovers fans. So where does the thinking come from that the sentence, 'The Jews are the men that will not be blamed for nothing' will prompt a riot by others onto the Jewish community around Whitechapel?


Does PC Long, DC Halse or anyone else describe the graffiti anywhere else away from the inquest?

[Sam Flynn]

I meant that the wall was flat and just divided by the black and white bricks. There wasn't anything between acting as a dado so the writing had all the space of the wall below the line.

...if the writer wanted a broken back. Chances are he/she wrote the message on the black part of the wall at a comfortable height. (He/she wasn't going to write it on the whitewashed bricks above the "dado".)

[Sam Flynn]

It's a single sentence which Halse described as being written across 3 lines on the wall. As far as I can tell, each copy of the graffiti is a bid to record the wording rather than the layout as it was seen. I'm not sure how Halse can have mistook the number of lines as it appeared on the wall.

Exactly.

[Curious Cat]

...if the writer wanted a broken back. Chances are he/she wrote the message on the black part of the wall at a comfortable height. (He/she wasn't going to write it on the whitewashed bricks above the "dado".)

That's what I'm saying. You were suggesting the writing was with the width of a featured dado. There wasn't an actual dado rail either physical or represented in paint so the writing wasn't within that space or position on the wall. There was just a horizontal line created by the white bricks above and the black bricks below. This is what acted as the dado Halse described. The writing was on the bottom half of the wall.

[Trapperologist]

I'm going to agree and say that I was probably wrong about the number of actual lines and their location in the entry. Warren was more than likely lying about the position of the graffito on the "door jamb".

So there were 3 lines (even PC Long appears to have a comma after "The Juwes").

Whichever way, we have two out of 3 versions of the GSG with indents. If the 3rd version has a comma after the first two words, then that also indicates lines of very different lengths as per Halse's version, which can't be explained by any practical convention.

[DJA]

Have a look at the syntax.
Subject,verb and object.