Serial Killers, A pattern???

[corey123]

No worrys lynn.

Before you stop, can you explain to me why you think what you think.clarify if you will??

yours truly

[lynn cates]

shoulder to the wheel

Hello Corey. Well, the picture will get clearer later. Right now, let's keep pursuing our usual pursuits.

(And I shall endeavour to leave the hijacking to Kosminski.)

The best.
LC

[joelhall]

apologies corey.

im sure well explain in another thread, after a little tweaking of course

[corey123]

yes it shall, for both routes we take.

yours truly

[Chadwick]

From Hell

It may be.
She ALLEGEDLY said that, we dont know for sure.
All though she was quite drunk on the night of her murder so if she did say that that might be the reason.
I know(from memory) that kelly talked about leaving whitechapel I believe because she was frightened by the scare. But again I believe this is alegedly said.

And I believe the reason Eddowes was killed was simply she was at the wrong place at the wrong time. A very unfortunate way to die.
I believe the killer who had previously killed stride wanted to find another victim so he could feed his desire by mutilating them, and she was easy prey.

yours truly

Corey,

I agree fully that she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Preying on the powerless could also be telling about his own sense of powerlessness. Just a thought. I don't think it plays into your idea of narcissism. Of course, it could. Lack of control in childhood could have led to the development of a narcissistic need for control and power.

Given your theory, what do you think happened to him? Why did the killings stop? Don't you think he was aware, given his statement that he thought he was in hell, was aware how horrible his crimes were?

Best to you.

[corey123]

thats a extremily difficult question to answer.
I have my ideas none of them are very helpful for it would be near impossible to name that reason without naming the killer.
I would say that he never did stop killing, I have no clue why he would stop.
Why would a killer stop killing?
Why did the zodiac stop? was it because he was chased by police after the murder of paul stine? Or that he was very close to detection?

That is the most logical reason I can come up with, he was too close to being caught or he died.

And about narcissist, they seem outwardly confident and 'bullit proof' of emotion but this is not the case.Most narcissists cant stand critisism, they usually rage out towards those who do so to them. They have a sense of that every one is jeolous of them and that everyone else is also a narcissist. I believe that if the killer was a narcissist he didnt get attention from sociaty and didnt get attention from his family and I think his victimology is a result of his past experiances.

One or the other.

yours truly

[joelhall]

thats a extremily difficult question to answer.
I have my ideas none of them are very helpful for it would be near impossible to name that reason without naming the killer.
I would say that he never did stop killing, I have no clue why he would stop.
Why would a killer stop killing?
Why did the zodiac stop? was it because he was chased by police after the murder of paul stine? Or that he was very close to detection?

That is the most logical reason I can come up with, he was too close to being caught or he died.

And about narcissist, they seem outwardly confident and 'bullit proof' of emotion but this is not the case.Most narcissists cant stand critisism, they usually rage out towards those who do so to them. They have a sense of that every one is jeolous of them and that everyone else is also a narcissist. I believe that if the killer was a narcissist he didnt get attention from sociaty and didnt get attention from his family and I think his victimology is a result of his past experiances.

One or the other.

yours truly

if he were obsessive over this its doubtful he would stop.

however, if you assume npd theres one major motive (and not a new one either) which you have overlooked.

clue: whores - and nothing to do with his mother.

[corey123]

whores eh? A narcissistic serial killer would kill whores maybe because he recieved a disease from them? Or maybe to rid the world of them?
Are you pointing to a sexual narcissist?

[Chadwick]

Depravity

thats a extremily difficult question to answer.
I have my ideas none of them are very helpful for it would be near impossible to name that reason without naming the killer.
I would say that he never did stop killing, I have no clue why he would stop.
Why would a killer stop killing?
Why did the zodiac stop? was it because he was chased by police? Or that he was very close to detection?

That is the most logical reason I can come up with, he was too close to being caught or he died.

And about narcissist, they seem outwardly confident and 'bullit proof' of emotion but inthis is not the case.Most narcissists can stand critisizing, they usually rage out towards those who do so to them. They have a sense of that every one is jeolous of them and that everyone else is also a narcissist. I believe that if the killer was a narcissist he didnt get attention from sociaty and didnt get attention from his family and I think his victimoogy is a result of his past experiances.

One or the other.

yours truly

Thank you for your forthrightness. I agree. It is rare that such killers stop. You named one example. Another was the BTK killer. Of course, he surfaced and then was caught.

It could be that the full expression of his own depravity in the Mary Kelly murder may have disgusted and horrified even him. I have come across statements from serial killers, like Daumer, who don't understand the reasons they are driven to commit such despicable acts. There are a few similarities between the two men.

I was just curious if your investigations led you to any answers on why he stopped. I know some say he went to America and some say he died.

If I were an investigator, however, Eddowes statement of her knowledge of the Ripper's identity only hours before she was murdered would be a red flag; an enticing clue to follow. The fact that she was drunk would only put her in more danger. Her inhibitions, her judgement would all be impaired and it would render her all the more vulnerable should she try to confront this man.

Did she make that statement to the police? Was that the murder where JTR scrawled on the wall about "Jewes" and the police had it washed off?

Curious...

We speculate. I certainly do. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I appreciate your thoughtful insight.

Best to you.

[corey123]

John Dillenger

I think a plausable reason to why Jack the Ripper stoped killing after 30th sep til Nov 9th is that after the 'double event' the people of whitechapel and spitalfields grouped outside of dutfields yard and that day on the killer had become 'public enemy No. 1'. Enough to give a narcissist his narcissistic supply.

yours truly

until at least that wasnt enough for him.
then he killed MJK.

[corey123]

You are refering to the goulston street grafito. the famous line "the juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing" was found in the arch of a doorway along with a peice of eddowes apron. This is his apperent path of escape from mitre sqaure to goulston street then a number of routes can bridge from that.

If indeed he was a narcissist he lacked empathy and remorse so him being disgusted by his own murder would be out of the question.

You should look up ted bundy. He was a narcissistic serial killer and didnt feel guilty at all, they will never admit their wrong doing. Bundy pleaded not guilty and fought by himself for his own trial. He later blamed the killings on pornography again not taking the blame.

yours truly

ps the other version "the juwes are not the men who will be blamed for nothing."

[corey123]

There are however

Many counts of unknown serial killers that just stop killing for whatever reason.

Jack the Ripper
The Zodiac
The Torso killer(LVP)
ect

[DVV]

Right Corey,

but you forgot Ed Kemper. He has much in common with Jack, imo.

Amitiés,
David

[joelhall]

I think a plausable reason to why Jack the Ripper stoped killing after 30th sep til Nov 9th is that after the 'double event' the people of whitechapel and spitalfields grouped outside of dutfields yard and that day on the killer had become 'public enemy No. 1'. Enough to give a narcissist his narcissistic supply.

yours truly

until at least that wasnt enough for him.
then he killed MJK.

surely being a narcissist he would not have stopped, but been angered that these lesser mortals could not understand what he was doing for them (clue number 2). i am doubfult the killer contracted vd and went out to kill prostitutes because of it.

it is more likely he would have stepped up the killings to force people to see the good work he was doing, after all a narcissist will not believe he is in the wrong!

now think:

narcissist: see himself as better than others and special in the world. he may of course see himself as omnipotent, or having some special place in society, or having a higher intellect, or even as some sort of saviour.

read up on 'making demands' a common thinking error identified by cognitive and behavioural psychologists. people who do this assume that themselves and the world around them needs to conform to their personal rules and beliefs, and is believed to be one of the most important thinking errors leading to psychological distress. this distress becomes apparent when people or things or events around them do not conform to how the person wishes them to be.

the term 'making demands' was coined as this type of thought is a demand inside the mind of the person, rather than a preference, i.e. they have no room for manoeuvre within very limited and clearly defined rules which they set for themselves.

rather than realising that people have free will and can make judgements and decisions for themselves based on their own rules, which may allow for flexibility, those who make demands become psychologically distressed if things do not go their way. they have no flexibility in their approach to events or beliefs, and do not tolerate others breaking their rules.

this is not of course indicative of a psychiatric illness, but occurs within people of normal psychologies as well as those with minor disorders and serious mental disturbances.

some others you may wish to check are 'black and white' thinking, 'catastrophising' and others. youll no doubt find it very interesting.

remember that the narcissist is one who can do as he pleases, or believes he has a right to act in a certain way.

as a side note:

whores: thought by even those in the local area whom they lived amongst as immoral, or low-class. they were often as despised by those around them as they were by other sections of the community or further afield. it is wrong to assume it was accepted by those in the east end as a necessity as many contemporary accounts from the time bear witness to.

anyway be sure to read up on theories behind cognitive behavioural therapy and thinking errors! this will help you understand a little more of how, not only the mentally distressed, but those without psychological problems also think and behave because of their beliefs and thoughts.

once again, good luck.

joel

[Sam Flynn]

I agree with Sam, "ripper-like" is near silent attacks, deep throat cuts and at least abdominal wounds if not mutilations.

Not "near-silent attacks", Mike - as I've pointed out a few times, we can't use that because:

1. The victims may have made a noise that went unnoticed by prospective "ear-witnesses" - quite likely given the time of night on which most of the attacks occurred; and

2. Whether the victims made a noise (or put up a struggle) was down to them, and hence can't possibly be an attribute of the killer.

Even if we could use "near-silent attacks" as an attribute of the One True Ripper, he won't have been the first or the last killer to have silenced his victims swiftly, so at best it's not a distinguishing attribute.