Serial Killers, A pattern???

[cappuccina]

Yes, either that, or that was their "press release" when they couldn't find anything obvious because they did not want to deal with it publicly. I believe they still, as police do today, continued to look at a lot more evidence/theories as to what happened/suspects than have come to light...

For example, it would be wonderful to have a list of all of the East End "ruffians" that they interviewed and "let off", and why those people did not continue to fall under the umbrella of suspicion...

In JtR's case, I think the stabbing "substituted" (in his mind) for the sex act itself, and, in my opinion contributed to his overall rage because I think he was either impotent all along, or rendered so by a bad case of VD... (OK, I am nauseous now... )...IOW, there may have been no such fluid to find...

Anyway, Happy Holidays to you too, Michael!!

[mklhawley]

What I am intrigued about with Corey123’s hypothesis are the patterns. The purpose of science is to discover patterns in nature (inductive reasoning), and then attempt to explain those patterns with the known empirical evidence (deductive reasoning). There are three patterns fitting the evidence in this hypothesis that resonate with me, 1) learning from experience, 2) conforming to the aggressive form of narcissism, and 3) a pattern in mutilation. The narcissism pattern of loner, pathological lying, paranoia, and psychological episodes reminds me of Ted Bundy. He could certainly put on a nice game face in public, but listening to the surviving Bundy victims showed an evil person during his episodes.

Sincerely,

Mike

[corey123]

Hello all,

I do believe that the ripper has narcissism, for one, it is a disorder which can lead to many of the disorders that we find with serial killers this day, such as Borderline syndrom, paranoid schitzaphrenia, and OCD.

A modern day serial killer, Jeffrey Dahmer, was diagnosed narcissistic. Serial killers in Jacks time were no different than they are today so we must look at jack the same way as we do "modern era" serial killers(besides perhaps the location).
As Mike says,I used the scientific theory.
My observation: The connection between the murders, and that of narcissistic killers.
My Induction: Reconising the connection in those six.
My deduction: 1) the same M.O was used in the 2,3,5, &6 murders but the same intention is found in all six(not including stride, can be explained)
2) More severe mutilations as the murders progress( and due to the location)
My testing: finding similar behavior patterns in the zodiac killings. Also finding that Narcissism was found in Jeffrey Dahmer and that it leads to different psychological disorders
This thread topic is my evaluation.

I also do wonder what signs did the doctors looked for to find "Connexion"? It would be hard to detect those signs because of two factors:
1) In most of the cases they were prostitutes so they could have "Connected" with various men.
2) In some cases part of the upper vaginal portion was removed.

I dont believe we can entirely rely on the mortitions findings.

Yours truly

[lynn cates]

model

Hello Corey.

"Serial killers in Jack[']s time were no different [from how] they are today"

Possibly. But how do we know this? Which model/s of LVP serial killers are we using for reference here?

The best.
LC

[corey123]

Well

Lynn,

Think about it. How could a serial killer be any different? There were no disorders(mentally) back then that we dont have today.
Jack the Ripper kills like any modern day serial killer.
They are human as our modern day killers are.
We dont need to present a certain killer to know that there is little difference between the modern and past serial killers.
Every killer is different in some way but how could anyone prove that there is a diffenent difference that greatly alienates past killers from modern killer?

please tell me that.

yours truly

[lynn cates]

dialectic

Hello Corey. They may well be the same, for what little I know. I have not met any LVP serial killers, although I am almost old enough. I HOPE I have not met any 21st c ones, for if I find out otherwise, I may not sleep well for awhile.

Notice that in a logical disputation (or dialectic, if you will), the onus is always on the one who asserts the positive. The naysayer need not do that. So if LVP SK's must behave a certain way, it is good to come forward with a model.

The best.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Corey. They may well be the same, for what little I know. I have not met any LVP serial killers, although I am almost old enough. I HOPE I have not met any 21st c ones, for if I find out otherwise, I may not sleep well for awhile.

Notice that in a logical disputation (or dialectic, if you will), the onus is always on the one who asserts the positive. The naysayer need not do that. So if LVP SK's must behave a certain way, it is good to come forward with a model.

The best.
LC

"disputation", "dialectic", "onus" - give me a break here. I haven't bought that German-English dictionary yet.

c.d.

[corey123]

lynn

We have our model, Jack the ripper.
No matter how many victims you think to be attributed to him we view him the same way we view present day killer(to a point)

[lynn cates]

dictionary

Hello CD. But the dictionary is your friend.

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

circle

Hello Corey.

"We have our model, Jack the [R]ipper."

Well, do you see any circularity here? Notice:

1. Jack must evince behaviour like other LVP serial killers.

(OK, and those were . . . ?)

2. Jack the Ripper.

(So Jack had to behave like Jack?)

But perhaps we can compare him to the modern SK's? Very well. But proceed judiciously. I don't doubt similarities, but expect differences as well.

The best.
LC

[perrymason]

Corey,

Jack the Ripper could get away killing in public access venues and leave hairs, pieces of lint, bloodstains, fibers from his home or his business, bloody bootprints, or his own blood.....and they would have no way of determining anything about him or his whereabouts from that data.

With publicly mounted surveillance and modern forensic tools, police can now trace a single rug fiber to its manufacturer, isolate killers blood when mixed with the victims, measure and identify shoe sizes and types by bloody footprints, they can witness activties that happened in set locations via video tape, they can take a partial fingerprint and match it with known full prints on national databases, ........

Todays serial killer has to be Organized to have a hope of escaping detection. Not back then.

Best regards

[corey123]

Lynn

For one, I said that JACK wasnt any different from modern day serial killers. And two I know there will be differences because I previously stated that all serial killers are different.
Ok to name more than one.

I feel it safe to assume that the torso murders were the act of one man.

Ok so we have UNSUB #1 and #2.
#1 is Jack the Ripper
#2 is torso killer

Simularitys:
1) both killed by knife
2) both were never caught(as far as we know of)
3) they both picked women victims.
4) (assuming) they both show the homcidal triad(similar in most ever serial murderer)arson(as a child) unrinitus(wetting the bed) and harming animals.
Differences:
1) M.O
2) UNSUB 2 killed the victims, then probally disembowled them indoors, later disposing of the body parts in various locations.
3)UNSUB 1 cut the throat then mutilating their abdomens and faces, leaving them where they were murdered.
4) UNSUB 1 attracted WAY more attention than UNSUB 2, resulting in UNSUB 2 being practically ignored(by people at least, again I am assuming).

There are two different LVP serial murderers.

Yours truly

[lynn cates]

assumption

Hello Corey.

"I feel it safe to assume that the torso murders were the act of one man."

Why is that? If 2 men each kill a woman, why is it hard to imagine both wish to dismember for easy disposal?

Actually, they may well have been the same one. But let's not be guilty of a hasty generalization.

Do you think 1 man perpetrated ALL the other unsolved murders, including MacKenzie and Coles?

The best.
LC

[corey123]

Lynn

We are assuming, please dont change the thread topic, and no I dont, I believe the six murders I classified are from the man we call "Jack the Ripper" and emma smith to be the victim of gang violence. I believe "fairy fay" to be fictional, I believe Coles and Mckenzies killer to be the same, and I also believe the Torso murders to be the work of one man(who isnt Jack).

The reason this is, is because the torso murders started way befor Jacks spree and occured within Jacks spree. I dont believe it is possible that a killer would continue with two different killing sprees at the same time using different M.Os. Its just not likely whatso ever, but as you said it is possible.
And to you question of disposition, I think Jack tried to decapitate the victims, but was unsuccesfull. In my mind Jack the Ripper doesnt have any anatomical knowledge, but maybe a little butchering experiance. I see a main difference in the throat cuts in the torso killings and the C5.

1) In the C5 it seems that Jack tried to decapititate, but was not succesful. He tried not to cut throught the soft tissue inbetween the vertebres of the neck but rather tried to saw through the bone.
2) In the torso murders, the head was cut throught the soft tissues, showing at least knowledge enough to cut the head and other appendages from the body.

yours truly

p.s. Perrymason, today we still have unorganized serial killers. Your notion that they "Must be organized" is false, it depends on the killer. And Jack shows signs of organization.

[lynn cates]

weapon

Hello Corey.

"1) In the C5 it seems that Jack tried to decapititate, but was not succesful. He tried not to cut throught the soft tissue inbetween the vertebres of the neck but rather tried to saw through the bone.
2) In the torso murders, the head was cut throught the soft tissues, showing at least knowledge enough to cut the head and other appendages from the body."

Is it impossible that, just as the knife in the Stride case was not the one used in the Chapman case, that this could merely depend on 2 different weapons? Say, a meat cleaver in the case of the torso killings?

The best.
LC