JtR was Law Enforcement Hypothesis

[Michael W Richards]

If Lawende didn't see her the timeline is far more acceptable. 8-9 minutes from the location outside the square to the discovery at 1:44-45ish is too much of a stretch. He cut out an organ that rests in the back of the abdomen.. from the front. He sectioned colon. he cut her nose, marked her face. He tore and cut the apron. He removed her kidney and a partial uterus. In almost total darkness. A minute or 2 walk from the location Lawende says he saw her at leaves 6-7 minutes for killing and the rest of the work. Not reasonable.

[Batman]

Thats it, my take is he had 14 minutes.
Many of these unfortunates wore dark clothes, and as Lawende was not expected to remember what one particular woman wore as he passed her when leaving the club, his "similar" was naturally the best he could do.

How about the man seen by Schwartz and Lewende.

"aged about 30, five feet five inches tall, fair complexion, dark hair, small brown moustache, full face, broad shouldered, wearing a dark jacket and trousers, and a black cap with a peak.

"young, middle-height, had a small fair moustache, wearing what looked like navy serge and a deerstalker’s cap." According to later reports he was about 30 years old, 5 feet 7 or 8 inches tall and of medium build, with a fair complexion and mustache. He wore a pepper-and-salt loose jacket, a gray cloth cap with a peak, and a reddish neckerchief tied in a knot. Lawende thought he looked like a sailor.

[Wickerman]

That gives JtR under 9 minutes to do everything if the identification is correct.

So 14 minutes is what he has without Lewende.

and 9 minutes with.

Thats it, my take is he had 14 minutes.
Many of these unfortunates wore dark clothes, and as Lawende was not expected to remember what one particular woman wore as he passed her when leaving the club, his "similar" was naturally the best he could do.

[Wickerman]

Yeh, thanks too much talk about Stride recently.
Lawende said 5 minutes after 1:30 (1:35), and Watkins found the body at 1:44 = 9 minutes.

[Batman]

That's right. I think maybe Wickerman might be confusing the scenario with Watkins himself finding her body at 1:44 a.m, having previously been there at 1:30 a.m and not seeing a body.

Which means JtR in under 14 minutes did everything.

Now he didn't have to meet her in that time frame. Just get into Mitre Square and do his devil's work.

She was released at 1:00 am from the drunk tank.

Lewende believed he saw here at 1:35 am.

That gives JtR under 9 minutes to do everything if the identification is correct.

So 14 minutes is what he has without Lewende.

and 9 minutes with.

[Scott Nelson]

Add an hour to your timeline.

[Wickerman]

Is there is a problem with the time-line and Lawende? That would be interesting. Didn't he confirm the woman was wearing the same clothes he saw the woman wearing on Duke Street?

Lawende said they left the club at 12:35, while Watkins discovered the body at 12:44. So nine minutes for the couple in Duke street to walk down the passage 85ft, then 72ft across the square, murder & mutilate the woman, removing two organs, then flee the scene.

Not that it's impossible, the timing had to be precise to the point of it being unlikely. All that would have to happen in nine minutes, and much would depend on how fast the victim would walk the 157+ft to the far corner of the square, given that she was still wearing off the inebriation from 4 hours ago.

Lawende only said the woman wore the same type of clothing, which even Det. McWilliams wrote was not sufficiently conclusive.
I believe he was only shown the clothing, not the body, as he did not see the face of the woman in Duke St.

[Batman]

"Acting in concert" tends to suggest the Blotchy-looking character was working with the police. And, that suggests Galloway saw a re-enactment.
I know of no other instance in 19th century policing where the police staged a public re-enactment.

If this is what it was then that also tells us the police knew more about the movements of the Blotchy suspect than was printed in the press.

That doesn't seem like a bad explanation because in the same article it suggests they are still looking for Blotchy and that this wasn't him.

However, what if he was Blotchy and they had Blotchy recount his movements that evening. I suppose that doesn't make much sense because they were claiming he is an upstanding citizen and working with them.

[Batman]

What did JtR look like?

Remember Dahmer, one of his victims escaped into the street and found a cop, Dahmer followed him and took the kid from the cop and returned to his apartment, then killed him.

That aside, I think the timeline of the Eddowes murder & Lawende exiting the club strongly suggest the couple in Duke street were not Eddowes & the killer.
She was already dead in Mitre Square.

Shabby-genteel. I guess I shouldn't say 'what he looked liked' and more like 'man and woman' alone after hours not shy of a drink or two.

I would think that would draw attention after what happened to Chapman.

Is there is a problem with the time-line and Lawende? That would be interesting. Didn't he confirm the woman was wearing the same clothes he saw the woman wearing on Duke Street?

That Dalmer officer should have been fired. All they had to do was take a quick look around him home. Instead, the judge cleared them and they got promoted or something.

[Wickerman]

What this shows is that LE was more than happy to dismiss someone who was working with them.

"Acting in concert" tends to suggest the Blotchy-looking character was working with the police. And, that suggests Galloway saw a re-enactment.
I know of no other instance in 19th century policing where the police staged a public re-enactment.

If this is what it was then that also tells us the police knew more about the movements of the Blotchy suspect than was printed in the press.

[Wickerman]

What sort of bobby on the beat would walk past Eddowes standing with a man who looks like the description of JtR alone?

What did JtR look like?

Yet apparently JtR just stood there as a group walked by? Let himself be seen? Then knowing he has been seen to go ahead and murder the same woman nearby?

Something doesn't fit here.

Remember Dahmer, one of his victims escaped into the street and found a cop, Dahmer followed him and took the kid from the cop and returned to his apartment, then killed him.

That aside, I think the timeline of the Eddowes murder & Lawende exiting the club strongly suggest the couple in Duke street were not Eddowes & the killer.
She was already dead in Mitre Square.

[Batman]

With the audacity of the murders and the elusiveness of the murderer, it's tempting to think that the killer must have had some kind of inside track to always remain one step ahead of the law. Bear in mind that the other murders and attacks in Whitechapel at that time were unsolved, same goes for the Torso series. Crimes of this nature were not the bread and butter of the Victorian police force. Random, seemingly motiveless murders where the victims were selected by chance. They had little to no experience investigating serial killers, nor were they equipped with the modern forensic techniques to catch the perpetrator ex postfacto. Personally, I think like most serial killers, the Ripper had the right combination of low cunning and dumb luck to get away with it.

There were regular beats in Whitechapel and then there was the heightened increase in police presence because of the JtR crimes. Most of these traps and stakeouts would not be predictable to the general public.

JtR was operating in the middle of all of this and vanishing without a trace.

What sort of bobby on the beat would walk past Eddowes standing with a man who looks like the description of JtR alone?

Yet apparently JtR just stood there as a group walked by? Let himself be seen? Then knowing he has been seen to go ahead and murder the same woman nearby?

Something doesn't fit here.

[Batman]

What does this scenario suggest to you?
What was happening?

What this shows is that LE was more than happy to dismiss someone who was working with them.

[Batman]

A deluded ripper researcher desperately seeking the truth !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Hey, Trevor did you know a cop was behind the Visalia Ransacker, East Area Rapes and the Original Night Stalkings?

Want to see the crime spree Officer Joseph James DeAngelo racked up?

http://www.goldenstatekiller.com/attacks.php

Keep scrolling.

Everything is back on the cards with regards to possible LE involvement, IMO. Read the OP.

[Harry D]

With the audacity of the murders and the elusiveness of the murderer, it's tempting to think that the killer must have had some kind of inside track to always remain one step ahead of the law. Bear in mind that the other murders and attacks in Whitechapel at that time were unsolved, same goes for the Torso series. Crimes of this nature were not the bread and butter of the Victorian police force. Random, seemingly motiveless murders where the victims were selected by chance. They had little to no experience investigating serial killers, nor were they equipped with the modern forensic techniques to catch the perpetrator ex postfacto. Personally, I think like most serial killers, the Ripper had the right combination of low cunning and dumb luck to get away with it.