JtR was Law Enforcement Hypothesis

[Michael W Richards]

This looks to me like a circular argument. The closest people to the scene of the crime were only "all" police officers if an assumption is made that the killer was one of them.

I'm actually of the belief that the proximity of all those policemen, perhaps excluding Morris, had more to do with creating a net. I didn't intend to infer that one of them must have been the murderer at all. I did intend to infer that they expected an attack on Kate that night, which might be a result of intelligence that she intended to name a killer she believed did the prior murders. Something that may or may not have been true, she may have thought of someone who was guilty of crimes but not the ones she imagined.

Maybe someone Irish, which makes Mitre Square an interesting choice...I believe it was at one time used by self rule factions?

[Bridewell]

The closest people to the actual scene of the crime at the time it occurred were all current or ex police. Pearce, Morris, Harvey, Watkins, Marriott, Halse, Outram...and the crime seems to have occurred when one officer should have been visually checking that court from one point and another entering the court from another.

This looks to me like a circular argument. The closest people to the scene of the crime were only "all" police officers if an assumption is made that the killer was one of them.

[Michael W Richards]

Hi,
Just something else regarding the Eddowes murder that I thought about some years back, if the GSG was written by the ripper, and the line referring to " blamed for nothing"
Well this is what she said was her name when originally taken in to Bishopsgate Police Station.....only the Police officers on duty would have known that.

Regards

That's an interesting suggestion spyglass, and only they would know her release time. If she had arranged a meeting with someone, for example, then her incarceration and the unknown time of release would have put a big kink in her plans. Unless either she was released in time to make that meeting, or that the person waiting was informed about her whereabouts and delay.

What if she was released so that the police could follow her, where she went and who she was to meet, and maybe cordon off that area to ensure that this person couldn't evade them when leaving. The closest people to the actual scene of the crime at the time it occurred were all current or ex police. Pearce, Morris, Harvey, Watkins, Marriott, Halse, Outram...and the crime seems to have occurred when one officer should have been visually checking that court from one point and another entering the court from another.

[spyglass]

Its an interesting question in particular with Kate Eddowes murder. Pearce, Harvey, Watkins, Marriot, Halse and Outram, Long, Morris...did I miss anyone?...were all within the vicinity of her murder at the time it happens. Its the only one of the "Canonical" murders that has a plethora of police near... at the time of the murder.

Hi,
Just something else regarding the Eddowes murder that I thought about some years back, if the GSG was written by the ripper, and the line referring to " blamed for nothing"
Well this is what she said was her name when originally taken in to Bishopsgate Police Station.....only the Police officers on duty would have known that.

Regards

[Bridewell]

Yes, all that was addressed years ago. If Harvey was dismissed, would that devalue his worth as a later witness? Or maybe the Seaside Identification occurred in 1889?

That's not the point I'm making, Scott, so apologies if I've clumsily given a contrary impression. I was merely pointing out that the James Hay who appears in the 1891 census at the Seaside Home is unlikely to be Pc James Harvey if the latter was dismissed almost 2 years previously. I'm certainly not disputing the contention that he could have been the Seaside Home witness; I've argued in favour of that possibility on a previous thread (hence my reference to his having been born in Sussex).

[Scott Nelson]

Yes, all that was addressed years ago. If Harvey was dismissed, would that devalue his worth as a later witness? Or maybe the Seaside Identification occurred in 1889?

[Bridewell]

Interesting conjecture Scott, Ive always suspected that Harvey has more to his story. I wonder about Pearce in much the same way.

Harvey was dismissed in 1889 (1st July), so would not have been a serving officer at the time of the 1891 census. Interestingly, while his personal file (in 2012) still contained documents which supported his appointment, those which (presumably) explained the reasons for his dismissal were not. The word "Dismissed" is written on the file cover in heavy pencil and underlined.

[RockySullivan]

The Complete and Essential Jack the Ripper
By Paul Begg, John Bennett


Edward Watkins was suspected by an anonymous correspondent from Trowbridge.

George Morris was also suspected as an ex-constable.

hi jerry what do you hear what do you say!
do you have any more info on these guys, especially watkins? what do you think of william thick as a suspect in light of some of the info in Tom's book?

If it the ripper was a cop, I would look for any officers who had connections to the earlier torso cases

[Abby Normal]

I was shot down when I raised this as an "idea" a few months back, which is why I don't post much here anymore. Too many angry people will slam you for raising points that should be considered and don't hesitate to ridicule you over it..that being said - this guy could just as well have been Jack. Ex-police just before the killings got started. Florid (blotchy) complexion....arrested 2x on suspicion of being the ripper:
George Compton

Nice fimd suspect.
Absolutely seems like this guy is suspicious. I didnt see were it said he had florid complextion though.
Anyone find anything else on george compton?

[SuspectZero]

I was shot down when I raised this as an "idea" a few months back, which is why I don't post much here anymore. Too many angry people will slam you for raising points that should be considered and don't hesitate to ridicule you over it..that being said - this guy could just as well have been Jack. Ex-police just before the killings got started. Florid (blotchy) complexion....arrested 2x on suspicion of being the ripper:
George Compton

[Michael W Richards]

The April 1891 census shows that Hay was one of three policemen staying at the Brighton Seaside home. This would have been close to the time (allegedly) that Kosminski was identified.

Interesting conjecture Scott, Ive always suspected that Harvey has more to his story. I wonder about Pearce in much the same way.

[Scott Nelson]

The April 1891 census shows that Hay was one of three policemen staying at the Brighton Seaside home. This would have been close to the time (allegedly) that Kosminski was identified.

[Bridewell]

re: #2. Could James Hay actually be James Harvey?

Hi, Scott. What's this an allusion to please? I seem to recall that Harvey was born in Sussex.

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Michael,

The eastern edge of the City was very much a Jewish area. Bevis Marks, Houndsditch, Aldgate High Street and one side of Middlesex Street (Petticoat Lane) were all in the City.

According to the press, after the Pizer debacle the 'slaughterman theory' returned to favour, and the City's slaughterhouses were predominantly in that same area.

So if the City police wanted to concentrate their manpower in the part of their jurisdiction that had the highest Jewish population and the greatest number of slaughterhouses, I'd imagine that's exactly where they would have done so.

Gary

I get the association Gary, but I'm still of the belief that something other than heightened patrols around slaughterhouses caused 3 detectives to be out after midnight. Id also add that anyone in the city who may have caught wind of the earlier murder that night would have no reason to suspect any particular trade of that act. No "butchery" at all.

It just sticks in my craw that the people closest to Kate Eddowes murder were all either active or retired policemen. And that if one were of a mind to cordon off an area to ensure that anyone leaving that area would bump into the police, Mitre Square seems a great location to set that up. I'm not so sure it would be specifically to catch a "Ripper", but perhaps someone they had been following and fearful of. The Parnell Commission brought some bad folks into town too...the Ripper murders were just an "also ran" danger at that period in time, particularly to the City itself.

Maybe the police were considering that their chances of catching a killer might be much better just after a murder had happened.

[Scott Nelson]

re: #2. Could James Hay actually be James Harvey?