Does the Goulston Street Graffito eliminate Jewish Immigrants as suspects?

[c.d.]

I guess we would not if they wanted to hide it. Especially after the events of the Double Event.

Hello Geddy,

Well that is pretty much a non-falsifiable claim.

c.d.

[Geddy2112]

That is possible but I have never seen any mention of a message in Millers Court in any police report.

I guess we would not if they wanted to hide it. Especially after the events of the Double Event.

[c.d.]

I did make a thread stating it might have been possible the wall behind Mary had been wiped down before her body was photographed. I believe the consensus was it had not.

That is possible but I have never seen any mention of a message in Millers Court in any police report.

c.d.

[Geddy2112]

For those who believe that Jack wrote the GSG, do you find it strange that he didn't write another message at Miller's Court (assuming that he killed Kelly as well)?

I did make a thread stating it might have been possible the wall behind Mary had been wiped down before her body was photographed. I believe the consensus was it had not.

[Tom_Wescott]

For those who believe that Jack wrote the GSG, do you find it strange that he didn't write another message at Miller's Court (assuming that he killed Kelly as well)?

c.d.

This is a fair question. I do think it most likely that Jack wrote the GSG. I'm not fond of assuming coincidence where murder is concerned. No one in the neighborhood reported seeing the writing prior to its discovery and the most reliable source (Halse) says it was fresh. Also, the context of the message, its location, and its size, make little if any sense outside of the murder of Liz Stride. I think it most likely the killer of Eddowes wanted it made clear that he killed both women. He wanted credit. As such a message would not have been necessary with Kelly, McKenzie, or Coles, it's perhaps not surprising that we don't hear of similar messages. But it's interesting to note that the men who erased it (Warren and Arnold) assumed it was written by the killer, or at least didn't reject the notion. Newspapers describe Arnold looking around Swallow Gardens for just such a message!

As to the question posed in the original post, since Anderson (the primary proponent of the Jewish immigrant theory) believed it written by the Ripper, it's hard to argue that the writing rules out the possibility. Whoever Anderson's Polish Jew Suspect was could evidently write English.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Patrick Differ]

Falsely convicted? He was caught red-handed.

He believed he was falsely convicted and said that they were pulling a lark or joke on Hyam Sampson. If you read the transcript of his case its not clear he was not set up by his rival. Levy had over 32 pounds on him and obviously did not need the meat he allegedly stole. But yes caught red handed as the police were tipped off by Sampson the day before. Phillips was Sampsons man and assisted Sampson in eliminating his rival Levy. That was the result.

The point is that Levy may have had early onset of neurosyphilis and was starting to experience paranoia. He was at #36 Middlesex before the Board of Works moved Sampson from Goulston Street. Something compelled Levy to make the decision that destroyed his life, sent him to prison and then an Asylum. His fall from grace was hard and fast and Sampson gave no consideration to the fact that 1) Levy was married with 4 children and 2) #36 had been in the Levy family for almost a century.

By the time Levy got out of the Asylum he was likely progressing with disease. His wife gave testimony to this fact when he was sent to Stone Asylum in 1890. Victorian Asylums in 1886 were general population and treatments were archaic so its hard to imagine Levys mindset after 11 months of exposure. He managed to get released which says something about his mental strength in my opinion.

Levy never got revenge against Sampson as the latter died 2 months after Levys release.

In 1887 Jacob would have been like all Jews in Whitechapel and obsessed with the Trial of Israel Lipski. As it turns out one of the Defenders for Lipski was Levys Defender. The outcome of Lipski was, like Levy, a conviction with similar circumstances. Many thought Lipski was not guilty and should at least not have been hanged. Again this was a gentile justice system. Did this trial affect Jacob Levy and cause him to relive his own experience with this system? Was the neighbor of murder victim Miriam Angel, a Levy, who thought Lipski innocent, a factor by relation and as a witness.

There is conjecture and posdible coincidence here no doubt. But when looking at motive and opportunity a man like Levy, based on what happened to him, where he lived and his profession, are overwhelming. He had revenge as a motive towards Sampson ( unfullfilled), law enforcement, judicial and prostitutes.

Levy would also be a logical choice for Robert Sagars butcher. While he did not work on Butchers Row, having been a Butcher his entire life he would have been a constant ficture there. Levys wife said he would wander aimlessly and by 1889 he was pretty much mentally unfit for conducting business or funtioning on any normal level.

Jacob Levys final trigger may have been the death of his mother in May 1888. She fell ill while Jacob was still in an Asylum. His father died 2 weeks after his theft conviction. Did he blame himself for the death of both his parents because of his conviction?

[seanr]

Jacob Levy is very compelling because he checks more boxes than any suspect so far. ... He was falsely convicted by an immigrant Jewish butcher named Hyam Sampson in a gentile justice system.

Falsely convicted? He was caught red-handed.

[Patrick Differ]

Would love to see other suspect arguments in summary. Any takers??

(The quote function isn't working for me right now.) The link below will lead you to brief summaries for many suspects:

https://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/book_reviews/non-fiction/cjmorley/index.html

Many thanks. Had a feeling it was out there. Cheers

[Lewis C]

Would love to see other suspect arguments in summary. Any takers??

(The quote function isn't working for me right now.) The link below will lead you to brief summaries for many suspects:

https://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/book_reviews/non-fiction/cjmorley/index.html

[Patrick Differ]

There is a strange habit of serial killers to focus on people of their own ethnicity ... its not a fool proof rule of course, but basically holds true.
If the serial killer was jewish, most likely the victims (at least one) would have been Jewish.

Charles Booth's study of Whitechapel at the time of Ripper illustrates the Jewish population by location and percentage. The murders all took place in predominantly Jewish neighborhoods. The victims , all at least casual prostitutes, lived at least for a year or more in the heart of the Jewish community.

There is however a difference when talking about the Whitechapel Jewish community because it was actually 2 communites. The existing Anglicized legacy Jews who were there since the early 1700's and the Eastern European Jews escaping the Russian Tsars. Stride is the only victim murdered in the Immigrant community which was only one block over from the Lipski murder the previous year. According to Booth, Bucks Row was also predominantly Jewish.

Would a gentile target gentile prostitutes in predominantly Jewish neighborhoods to blame the Jews? The immigrant Jews certainly became the focus of law enforcement. However the legacy Jews worked for decades to assimilate as Englishman. They themselves had little affinity for their immigrant bretheren. Even their legacy paper Jewish Chronicle was highly critical towards them.

Why was this killer never caught. Was he under everyones noses? The Eddowes murder and apron timeline certainly points to a man with a possible lair right in the middle of the legacy Jewish stronghold. And earlier with Stride the attack was in the heart of the Jewish immigrant Socialist movement.

The demograpbic Booth paints shows prostitutes being murdered in Jewish neighborhoods. The effect in real time was immigrant Jews being targeted by law enforcement. Not gentiles or legacy Jews. Yet he was never caught.

This killer was shrewd and cunning and a phantom. Insane but controlled as he killed in silence. The immigrant Jews were an easy patsy for a local gentile or legacy Jew. Leather Apron.Where would a legacy Jew murder gentile women? Where were the women he obviously hated? In the heart of the Jewish neighborhoods. Neighnorhoods that were being rehabilitated by Wealthy Jewish philanthropists.

Jack the Ripper killed in the neighborhood he grew up in. How else could he escape so easily? Even under Police surge he was not caught.

What were possible motives? Revenge for syphilis is an obvious one. 1 in 4 men had STD. Hatred for immigrant Jews? Personal reason? Hatred for Law Enforcement? Falsely accused. Hatred for Justice? Ruining his life and stigma.

The bodies, especially Chapman and Eddowes and then Kelly show a man likely living between Mitre Square and Dorset and near Goulston Street. Someone used to cutting up animals. I would add his profession was repetitive and usually in silence. The bodies illustrate this and the fact that no one heard a thing. Throats cut then gutting the abdomen are repetitive butcher methodology.

Why was Robert Sagar keeping track of a Jewish butcher? One he never named but was convinced was this killer?

Jacob Levy is very compelling because he checks more boxes than any suspect so far. He lived in the middle of every murder. Remember he also lived on Fieldgate Street for 4 years which was central to Nichols and Stride. He was falsely convicted by an immigrant Jewish butcher named Hyam Sampson in a gentile justice system. His motives against a Society who he felt betrayed by speaks of Revenge. Unfortunates were easy prey as Whitechapel was his turf. And he knew the kill method and was an expert in knives and their use.

Was the killer, in his neurosyphlitic mind transfering his profession from animal to human? He fell far from grace and became stigmatized as a convicted criminal lunatic. What did he have to lose? Was he attempting to show everyone he felt was responsible for his fall, that he was the " greatest" butcher. He was the Master. Was it that simple?

Would love to see other suspect arguments in summary. Any takers??

M

[Newbie]

I have a few problems with this idea. If Eddowes was going from Bishopsgate police station to Mitre Square, how did she pass Goulston Street? It isn't a logical route.

How did Eddowes cut her apron - she had a table knife, but that was for buttering her toast, it wouldn't have cut an apron. Why would she cut her apron, it would then be useless to her? She was carrying rags -what were they intended for if not as menstrual rags?

I'm not necessarily defending the idea, but she didn't have to walk a straight line from the police station to Mitre square. She knew the area and thought that it was a nice safe place where she could have some privacy. If you believe in the killer being knowledgeable about the area, he would come there for the same reason.

The apron might have already had a rip, and she in her semi intoxicated state might have just said: "to hell with it, i'll try and get a new one later." How square is square anyways. Is cutting it with a sharp knife going to be an easy process? Going out and soliciting with a ripped apron, is another matter .... but hey! Jack wasn't particular.

But yes, there are some big problems with this version. One would imagine the Bishopsgate police station had better facilities and more privacy to avail oneself of than Ghoulston street. It wasn't just one big holding cell which they hosed down every end of the month.

I posted it because it was an unusual take;
for selfish reasons, I much prefer the ripper placing it there.

[Fiver]

Catherine Eddowes:
[COLOR=#8e44ad]She’s been lying in a cell in a drunken stupor. The doorway in Goulston Street is about an 8-minute walk from Bishopsgate Police Station. She steps inside the doorway for privacy and, feminine hygiene being what it was in 1888, she takes her piece of cloth, lifts her skirt and cleans herself.

The police surgeons pointed out that there was no way of knowing if the blood was human or animal blood, so they certainly had no way of knowing if it was arterial or menstrual blood.

She drops the cloth and then walks for 5 minutes up to a quiet, dark corner of Mitre Square.

Eddowes had a dozen better choices before she would have torn an apron.


Possessions

• 2 small blue bags made of bed ticking
• 2 short black clay pipes
• 1 tin box containing tea
• 1 tin box containing sugar
• 1 tin matchbox, empty
• 12 pieces white rag, some slightly bloodstained
• 1 piece coarse linen, white
• 1 piece of blue and white shirting, 3 cornered
• 1 piece red flannel with pins and needles
• 6 pieces soap
• 1 small tooth comb
• 1 white handle table knife
• 1 metal teaspoon
• 1 red leather cigarette case with white metal fittings
• 1 ball hemp
• 1 piece of old white apron with repair
• Several buttons and a thimble
• Mustard tin containing two pawn tickets, One in the name of Emily Birrell, 52 White's Row, dated August 31, 9d for a man's flannel shirt. The other is in the name of Jane Kelly of 6 Dorset Street and dated September 28, 2S for a pair of men's boots. Both addresses are false.
• Printed handbill and according to a press report- a printed card for 'Frank Carter,305,Bethnal Green Road

• Portion of a pair of spectacles
• 1 red mitten

[Doctored Whatsit]

Catherine Eddowes:
She’s been lying in a cell in a drunken stupor. The doorway in Goulston Street is about an 8-minute walk from Bishopsgate Police Station. She steps inside the doorway for privacy and, feminine hygiene being what it was in 1888, she takes her piece of cloth, lifts her skirt and cleans herself.

The police surgeons pointed out that there was no way of knowing if the blood was human or animal blood, so they certainly had no way of knowing if it was arterial or menstrual blood.

She drops the cloth and then walks for 5 minutes up to a quiet, dark corner of Mitre Square.

The cloth remains inside the passage that leads to the stairway, out of sight of the police officers who are passing along Goulston Street.

Then, sometime after PC Long passes by at 2:20 am, a resident entering or leaving sees the filthy cloth and kicks it toward the entrance to the building, ready for PC Long to see it at 2:55 am.

I have a few problems with this idea. If Eddowes was going from Bishopsgate police station to Mitre Square, how did she pass Goulston Street? It isn't a logical route.

How did Eddowes cut her apron - she had a table knife, but that was for buttering her toast, it wouldn't have cut an apron. Why would she cut her apron, it would then be useless to her? She was carrying rags -what were they intended for if not as menstrual rags?

[Newbie]

The fact that none of the alleged Ripper victims were Jewish, but that at least 3 of them worked for the Jews (Eddowes, Stride and McKenzie) tells us that the killer wasn't being vengeful against Jews.

If there was a Jewish angle (and i'm not convinced there was) then it's far more likely that the killer was himself a Jew (Moab and Midian springs to mind) Not necessarily of course, but statistically more likely.


We also have the fact that MJK had her thigh and arm stripped of flesh; chunks cut out to reveal her thigh bone for example.
This action is indicative of a man taking his "pound of flesh."

The Jewish villain Shylock springs to mind.

A Jewish money lender living in a Christian city, who seeks vengeance for being owed a debt and referred to as the "cut throat dog."


The killer IMO had a connection to the theatre; as did Eddowes and Kelly (allegedly)

There is a strange habit of serial killers to focus on people of their own ethnicity ... its not a fool proof rule of course, but basically holds true.
If the serial killer was jewish, most likely the victims (at least one) would have been Jewish.

[Newbie]

I remember the first time I saw a picture of him and thought he was shifty AF. I do not know I know judging books by the cover etc but sometimes someone or something just does not sit right - first impressions and all of that so I get it when folk say the photo of Charles Cross looks shifty, but in my case with BTK is it because we want them to be shifty or already know in BTKs case he was shifty.

Just watched a replay on youtub of the dating game TV show with the serial killer Rodney Alcala.
Lots of comments on how he has that evil look in his eyes; but truthfully, he looked as normal as one could be on those type of shows.