Does the Goulston Street Graffito eliminate Jewish Immigrants as suspects?

[Newbie]

Hi Newbie,
i think in the graffito and apron case that there were 2 seperate thought patterns by the killer.

1. He was leaving the apron in Metro jurisdiction to draw the investigation away from London City. It would make sense and indicate a degree of shrewdness. All the murders were in Metro and a local would know communication habits and take advantage of it.

2. The grafitto likely has a different meaning depending on the killer. I think this is a motive statement. The justice and police were anti jewish historically at that time. Is the killer talking about killing gentile women? Is the killer talking about an inevitable conclusion that no matter what the outcome the Jews always get blamed? Witnesses see a foriegner, Leather apron???

Levy was in an asylum before and after the murders and his location during all the murders , literally right there makes him compelling. He thought he was falsely accused and his tie to Goulston and the metro v london jurisdictions is also unique. As a butcher he had the skill.

AI would need algorithms that ask the various gap questions by suspect. Thompson is a good candidate but, for example, why would Henry Smiths man Robert Sagar follow a butcher on Butchers row and who he felt was the killer, after Kellys murder. Sagar was also medically trained.

Too many questions still unanswered.

Hi Patrick,

indeed, but for the time being, was it possible to even see what you were writing with white chalk in that stairwell at 2:30 am, or so.
My understanding is that police officials didn't believe it was the ripper's doing.

And it is very unclear what the purpose was in writing that if it was the ripper and he was jewish.

If it was anti-jewish and self hate, then why did he not kill jewish females?
And if it was a sentiment of pity for how Jews were being unfairly treated .... he was killing women and mutilating their bodies for goodness sake! Justification? A crazy, irrational nut .... could be!

[Patrick Differ]

That's the gist of it .... blamed for what? For killing Christ, of course.

That's the age old excuse used for wanting to clear them out.

Hi Newbie,
i think in the graffito and apron case that there were 2 seperate thought patterns by the killer.

1. He was leaving the apron in Metro jurisdiction to draw the investigation away from London City. It would make sense and indicate a degree of shrewdness. All the murders were in Metro and a local would know communication habits and take advantage of it.

2. The grafitto likely has a different meaning depending on the killer. I think this is a motive statement. The justice and police were anti jewish historically at that time. Is the killer talking about killing gentile women? Is the killer talking about an inevitable conclusion that no matter what the outcome the Jews always get blamed? Witnesses see a foriegner, Leather apron???

Levy was in an asylum before and after the murders and his location during all the murders , literally right there makes him compelling. He thought he was falsely accused and his tie to Goulston and the metro v london jurisdictions is also unique. As a butcher he had the skill.

AI would need algorithms that ask the various gap questions by suspect. Thompson is a good candidate but, for example, why would Henry Smiths man Robert Sagar follow a butcher on Butchers row and who he felt was the killer, after Kellys murder. Sagar was also medically trained.

Too many questions still unanswered.

[Newbie]

RD - i Agree with your assessment. The use of double negatives that canceled each other out to say a positive statement was not uncommon.

Stated positively - The Jews are the men who will be blamed.

That appears to be a definitive statement

That's the gist of it .... blamed for what? For killing Christ, of course.

That's the age old excuse used for wanting to clear them out.

[Patrick Differ]

I don't think conclusive answers will be forthcoming, unfortunately.

Answers are elusive Scott. You would think Sagar would have recorded the name of the Butcher they followed. The patrolmen and detectives would have kept a record as well. There are other issues that paint Levy as a Prime suspect. Circumstantial yes but profile and motive rich. Finding the right rocks to turn over is also dwindling.

[Scott Nelson]

Was Jacob Levy the Butcher Robert Sagar was following? Probably not.
Was Jacob Levy living with his sister Elizabeth at #87 Middlesex in 1889 and 1890? Don't know.
Was Jacob Levy the person in Stone referenced by Lady Anderson? Likely not. Lady Anderson could have been mistaken about the asylum name.
Was Jacob Levy the man taken to Hove or another location to be identified by an eyewitness? No. Lawende or first cousin Joseph Hyam Levy? I've always preferred Levy over Lawende as the witness for Anderson's Polish Jew suspect.
What did Sagar mean by " referred by friends" to an Asylum? ( Levys admission to Stone shows " referred by friends" which is strange because his sister Elizabeths husband Isaac Barnett took him there. Why did no one acknowledge him?) As suggested, "friends" were probably relatives.

Will I find answers? Many unanswered questions on Levy.

I don't think conclusive answers will be forthcoming, unfortunately.

[Patrick Differ]

This actually runs against your theory. Yes, he sold Kosher meat bought from wholesalers, but there's no evidence he was ever a Shochet or a Menaker. There's no evidence he knew any more about cutting throats or removing organs than a carpenter or a charwoman.

A great many people are declared clinically insane, very few of them are pathological murderers.

With all due respect he was still a butcher and in his case was around it his entire life. His father and grandfather were butchers. No doubt he could cut animal throats, carve them up in cuts and had years of exposure to it.

So during his trial his accuser Sampson says, " We buy from the same killers...i sell more expensive cuts "..negotiation of what you are buying...from Shochets...and then Sampson talks about licensing.. the people granting licences to Kosher Butchers are the killers on Butchers Row...They are the Board of Shechita and you had to be of " good character" , as Sampson testified in order to get the Kosher license. You think a Butcher who is buying and reselling a carcas is not going to interact with his Shochet?

believe what you want Sean. Sagar wasnt looking for a Shochet which eliminates the 5 main owners on Butchers Row. He was looking at a Butcher he considered to be the Murderer.

If you believe there was another Butcher other than Jacob Levy associated with the Jewish Butcher Theory that person is yet to be found. I personally believe it was Levy. A man with the skill and motive to kill these women, a man of intelligence, a shrewd businessman, a convicted criminal lunatic, a puncher, a first cousin to a key eyewitness, and a man living in the heart of the murders.

There are many reasons to suspect Levy. My position is pretty straightforward. I believe he was the Butcher that Sagar was watching. Can it be proven? Like all suspects there are gaps.

The description of Levy by his wife that Mark King found in 1999 points to a man from the years 1886 to 1890 that got progressively worse. A complete psychotic that spent his entire life around the kosher butcher profession, its laws and its methods. When he finally reached stability and success he made the biggest mistake of his life with Sampson. Leading to a total fall from grace. Leading to humiliation and stigma that he would never be able to erase. He had plenty of motive and had the skill. Thats not even debateable in my opinion.

Was Jacob Levy the Butcher Robert Sagar was following?
Was Jacob Levy living with his sister Elizabeth at #87 Middlesex in 1889 and 1890?
Was Jacob Levy the person in Stone referenced by Lady Anderson?
Was Jacob Levy the man taken to Hove or another location to be identified by an eyewitness? Lawende or first cousin Joseph Hyam Levy?
What did Sagar mean by " referred by friends" to an Asylum? ( Levys admission to Stone shows " referred by friends" which is strange because his sister Elizabeths husband Isaac Barnett took him there. Why did no one acknowledge him?)

Will I find answers? Many unanswered questions on Levy.

[seanr]

Jacob Levy was a Kosher butcher.

This actually runs against your theory. Yes, he sold Kosher meat bought from wholesalers, but there's no evidence he was ever a Shochet or a Menaker. There's no evidence he knew any more about cutting throats or removing organs than a carpenter or a charwoman.

A great many people are declared clinically insane, very few of them are pathological murderers.

[Patrick Differ]

I refer to general paresis because it is generally considered that Levy was syphilitc, mercury poisoining being one such treatment for that condition. Good heavens, you just referred to it in order to lend him motivation towards killing prostitutes! Now, you change your mind and want to lump him into a general category of insanity? ... okay.

And its not safe to say that the killer was insane. I tend to think the killer was a psychopath: cold, calculating, getting a thrill out of the act.

There is a diminishment of cognitive faculties in the insane that makes me greatly wonder if they would bother to choose the right time & place in association to police beats, and the type of lighting conditions (close to a new Moon) that JtR consistently chose in the cannonical 5 + Martha Tabrum.

But, I am not totally closed to the idea that JtR was bat **** crazy. However, people who enter asylums are not necessarily insane .... insanity is a tiny subset of people who are diagnosed with a mental illness.

So, all we know is that Levy had a possible mentally illness, might have committed violence against his wife (unfortunately, very common back then), and might have been a butcher ....from the casebook article on 'Sagar's butcher theory':
No “Kosminski,” “Levy,” or “Cohen” has been found in this study who can be linked to a Jewish butcher shop in Butcher’s Row.

So, you have a lot to prove:

A. that Jack the Ripper was clinically insane (as in the Sagar report)
B. that the killer was a butcher
C. that Jacob Levy was a butcher
D. that Jacob Levy was clinically insane: one can be psychotic per the wife's testimony, and not be insane: the former is considered a personality disorder, as I have already indirectly stated.
E. that Jacob Levy was violently insane: the wife may well have been motivated by issues other than being truthful (ownership of property) & quite frankly, she was not a trained psychologist
F. that Jacob Levy was violent period: even the wife beating testimony will be challenged - again, given her interest in legally taking over their joint business venture.

Good luck!

I dont have any more to prove than anyone else with any other suspect. Jacob Levy was a Kosher butcher. An anglicized Jew to be precise. He was declared clinically insane by Doctors.

Best of luck to you as well.

[Newbie]

You seem to be hung up on one area of insanity. There are at least 4 but in truth there are only 6000 identified human genes out of 23000. Drugs are known to trigger mental illness so when you look at people who were put in Asylums during Victorian times their treatment was drugs. Was it a contributing factor. Possibly. Drugs can trigger mental illness. Point is i've dug and the fact he eventually ended up in Stone Asylum ( Where Lady Anderson thought the killer was sent) in 1890, having been committed first in 1886 , tells me he was suffering mental decline from any variety of sources.

Levy was committed twice. If it is safe to say this killer was insane then Levy certainly checks that box and its proven. I dont need to dig that avenue any further. I dont know that violence in itself is related to a certain type of illness. Violence was indicated in Levys records and he was certainly exposed to sadistic behavior in a general population Asylum.

My own research into Levy is other areas you might expect like ability to perform repetitive signatures. Who had the skill to perform these kills was more than some crazed lunatic proficient with a knife. The Doctors who handled the victims bodies certainly believed the killer had basic skills in anatomy and butcher was a meaningful consideration by them.

I already know he lived in the hunting and primary kill zone which I consider to be Tabrum, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly. But he also lived for 4 years in a secondary kill zone on Fieldgate Street, Stride and Nichols. It was his turf in my opinion. I know know of no other suspect other than Levy, that this fact of location, is remotely similar.

If it can be proven that Levy was Sagars butcher, and personally I believe he was, then I believe he moves to Prime suspect. In this case we know London City Police were watching a butcher on Aldgate High Street, Butchers Row, which intersects Middlesex Street where Jacob Levy lived, witness and first cousin Joseph Hyam Levy lived and where Jacobs older sister Elizabeth and her husband Isaac Barnett lived. It was Isaac who ( listed as a friend on admission record to Stone) committed Jacob in 1890. Why is he listed as friend and not family? I dont know yet but it is possible that when it was described that the butcher being watched was returning to his brothers house that it was actually his sisters house. Was he being watched by his older Sister and Isaac Barnett because his wife could no longer handle him? I dont know.

I think someone familiar with cutting up animals ....how many serial killers start here first?

My primary study in this case is Levy. For many reasons. What others do is their business of course. Levy was definately insane and was brought up around killing anmals as a profession. Historically that is a known serial killer trait.

It is perhaps his wifes testimony when he was committed to stone that is most compelling. You can find that on Casebook. It reveals she considered the business no longer Jacobs but " hers". She also reveals his psychotic behavior and thoughts of committing violence if not restrained.

Unfortunately her business failed and she ended up living with Elizabeth and Isaac for a time. Jacobs older sister and husband obviously looked after them and her brother. The Levy household was female dominated and it seems likely she watched out for her younger brother and his family.

My current research is into Sagars butcher theory. Difficult but the odds of 2 lunatic butchers in a quarter square mile seems a very low probability. Process of elimination is limited chasing records. There were 4 major Jewish butchers on Butchers Row and Slaughterhouses behind it. Kosher was regulated so that helps narrow the field. It woukd be inconceivable that Jacob and Joseph Hyam Levys were not frequent visitors to the Row. With the weekly Sunday Market activity in the thousands of people you would be inclined to believe a weekly need to fill orders. It was a turn and earn business after all.

I hope this information helps others.

I refer to general paresis because it is generally considered that Levy was syphilitc, mercury poisoining being one such treatment for that condition. Good heavens, you just referred to it in order to lend him motivation towards killing prostitutes! Now, you change your mind and want to lump him into a general category of insanity? ... okay.

And its not safe to say that the killer was insane. I tend to think the killer was a psychopath: cold, calculating, getting a thrill out of the act.

There is a diminishment of cognitive faculties in the insane that makes me greatly wonder if they would bother to choose the right time & place in association to police beats, and the type of lighting conditions (close to a new Moon) that JtR consistently chose in the cannonical 5 + Martha Tabrum.

But, I am not totally closed to the idea that JtR was bat **** crazy. However, people who enter asylums are not necessarily insane .... insanity is a tiny subset of people who are diagnosed with a mental illness.

So, all we know is that Levy had a possible mentally illness, might have committed violence against his wife (unfortunately, very common back then), and might have been a butcher ....from the casebook article on 'Sagar's butcher theory':
No “Kosminski,” “Levy,” or “Cohen” has been found in this study who can be linked to a Jewish butcher shop in Butcher’s Row.

So, you have a lot to prove:

A. that Jack the Ripper was clinically insane (as in the Sagar report)
B. that the killer was a butcher
C. that Jacob Levy was a butcher
D. that Jacob Levy was clinically insane: one can be psychotic per the wife's testimony, and not be insane: the former is considered a personality disorder, as I have already indirectly stated.
E. that Jacob Levy was violently insane: the wife may well have been motivated by issues other than being truthful (ownership of property) & quite frankly, she was not a trained psychologist
F. that Jacob Levy was violent period: even the wife beating testimony will be challenged - again, given her interest in legally taking over their joint business venture.

Good luck!

[Patrick Differ]

Your purpose is to motivate people towards believing .... no?
And let me say relaunched - because currently there is not a lot of interest in Jacob Levy.

And further, as an aside, let me ask what has hereditary insanity to do with neurosyphiis? You are confusing insanity with depression or the type of mental disorders that lead to suicide.

You evidently are not getting at all what I'm trying to tell you: if you like him as a suspect, then dig deeper, and a start would be finding out more about the association between neurosyphilis and homicidal tendencies. I suspect its rare, and such people would have great difficulty in planning anything.

As for the he could be violent bit, so could you or I. This is not at all compelling.

Here is what I could find on the clinical depiction of neurosyphilis:

paresis, , psychosis caused by widespread destruction of brain tissue occurring in some cases of late syphilis. Mental changes include gradual deterioration of personality, impaired concentration and judgment, delusions, loss of memory, disorientation, and apathy or violent rages. Convulsions are not uncommon, and while temporary remissions sometimes occur, untreated paresis is eventually fatal.

This is the only description I could find of general paresis that included violence. However, there is a huge leap from violent rages to homicdal intentions, and an even bigger leap between homicidal intentions and strangling/slashing/and then dissection.

But I ask you, beyond violent rages, is that a plausible description of Jack the Ripper?
And would someone in that state know they have an affliction, much less understand the source (gentile prostitutes)?

You seem to be hung up on one area of insanity. There are at least 4 but in truth there are only 6000 identified human genes out of 23000. Drugs are known to trigger mental illness so when you look at people who were put in Asylums during Victorian times their treatment was drugs. Was it a contributing factor. Possibly. Drugs can trigger mental illness. Point is i've dug and the fact he eventually ended up in Stone Asylum ( Where Lady Anderson thought the killer was sent) in 1890, having been committed first in 1886 , tells me he was suffering mental decline from any variety of sources.

Levy was committed twice. If it is safe to say this killer was insane then Levy certainly checks that box and its proven. I dont need to dig that avenue any further. I dont know that violence in itself is related to a certain type of illness. Violence was indicated in Levys records and he was certainly exposed to sadistic behavior in a general population Asylum.

My own research into Levy is other areas you might expect like ability to perform repetitive signatures. Who had the skill to perform these kills was more than some crazed lunatic proficient with a knife. The Doctors who handled the victims bodies certainly believed the killer had basic skills in anatomy and butcher was a meaningful consideration by them.

I already know he lived in the hunting and primary kill zone which I consider to be Tabrum, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly. But he also lived for 4 years in a secondary kill zone on Fieldgate Street, Stride and Nichols. It was his turf in my opinion. I know know of no other suspect other than Levy, that this fact of location, is remotely similar.

If it can be proven that Levy was Sagars butcher, and personally I believe he was, then I believe he moves to Prime suspect. In this case we know London City Police were watching a butcher on Aldgate High Street, Butchers Row, which intersects Middlesex Street where Jacob Levy lived, witness and first cousin Joseph Hyam Levy lived and where Jacobs older sister Elizabeth and her husband Isaac Barnett lived. It was Isaac who ( listed as a friend on admission record to Stone) committed Jacob in 1890. Why is he listed as friend and not family? I dont know yet but it is possible that when it was described that the butcher being watched was returning to his brothers house that it was actually his sisters house. Was he being watched by his older Sister and Isaac Barnett because his wife could no longer handle him? I dont know.

I think someone familiar with cutting up animals ....how many serial killers start here first?

My primary study in this case is Levy. For many reasons. What others do is their business of course. Levy was definately insane and was brought up around killing anmals as a profession. Historically that is a known serial killer trait.

It is perhaps his wifes testimony when he was committed to stone that is most compelling. You can find that on Casebook. It reveals she considered the business no longer Jacobs but " hers". She also reveals his psychotic behavior and thoughts of committing violence if not restrained.

Unfortunately her business failed and she ended up living with Elizabeth and Isaac for a time. Jacobs older sister and husband obviously looked after them and her brother. The Levy household was female dominated and it seems likely she watched out for her younger brother and his family.

My current research is into Sagars butcher theory. Difficult but the odds of 2 lunatic butchers in a quarter square mile seems a very low probability. Process of elimination is limited chasing records. There were 4 major Jewish butchers on Butchers Row and Slaughterhouses behind it. Kosher was regulated so that helps narrow the field. It woukd be inconceivable that Jacob and Joseph Hyam Levys were not frequent visitors to the Row. With the weekly Sunday Market activity in the thousands of people you would be inclined to believe a weekly need to fill orders. It was a turn and earn business after all.

I hope this information helps others.

[Newbie]

There is alot known about Levy. Syphilis that morphed into neurosyphilis was not uncommon in London. 1 in 4 men had STD and there was no cure. Mercury was used to treat it which could also cause mental issues.

Im not sure what you mean by launch as a candidate since he was launched in 1999 by Mark King with research from the I'ansons who tied Jacob Levy to witness Joseph Hyam Levy. The only known witness to possible suspect connection.

Insanity ran in his family. His immediate older brother Abraham committed suicide and Jacob attempted it in 1886. and right after the death of his father..

There are different types of insanity and Levy was committed in 1886 and then 1890. He was insane. It could have been caused by multiple factors including the gene pool.

Was he violent? According to his records he could be.
Was he a muderer? He is known to kill only animals by profession.
Did he live there? Middlesex Street london city side. All murders except Eddowes were outside London jurisdiction. He lived in the heart of the murders. He lived between Mitre and Goulston.

He checks virtually all boxes of any profile measurement.
Did he do it? Nobody has proven anyone is the Ripper

Your purpose is to motivate people towards believing .... no?
And let me say relaunched - because currently there is not a lot of interest in Jacob Levy.

And further, as an aside, let me ask what has hereditary insanity to do with neurosyphiis? You are confusing insanity with depression or the type of mental disorders that lead to suicide.

You evidently are not getting at all what I'm trying to tell you: if you like him as a suspect, then dig deeper, and a start would be finding out more about the association between neurosyphilis and homicidal tendencies. I suspect its rare, and such people would have great difficulty in planning anything.

As for the he could be violent bit, so could you or I. This is not at all compelling.

Here is what I could find on the clinical depiction of neurosyphilis:

paresis, , psychosis caused by widespread destruction of brain tissue occurring in some cases of late syphilis. Mental changes include gradual deterioration of personality, impaired concentration and judgment, delusions, loss of memory, disorientation, and apathy or violent rages. Convulsions are not uncommon, and while temporary remissions sometimes occur, untreated paresis is eventually fatal.

This is the only description I could find of general paresis that included violence. However, there is a huge leap from violent rages to homicdal intentions, and an even bigger leap between homicidal intentions and strangling/slashing/and then dissection.

But I ask you, beyond violent rages, is that a plausible description of Jack the Ripper?
And would someone in that state know they have an affliction, much less understand the source (gentile prostitutes)?

[Patrick Differ]

To me, getting his candidacy launched is not a matter of whether he had the skills to remove organs with precision,
It would be getting more information about the final stage of syphilis;
It would be a matter of gathering information about how much violence and murder were perpetuated by people driven mad by the final stage of syphillis: how many murders were committed by these people? I couldn't find a thing about it in my brief look.

All we have on Jacob Levy was that he was in the area (great!), he wandered the streets at night (great!), he knew how to use a knife (great!), and he had end stage syphillis (general paresis). Frankly, without the general paresis, he wouldn't be a candidate, or we would have to consider all the kosher butchers in White Chapel.

To me, more research needs to be done on general paresis. And if people are serious about him being the Ripper, they'd go about doing it.

Again, do they have the mental faculties to be able to establish cause and effect and seek revenge by this final stage? I wonder.

There is alot known about Levy. Syphilis that morphed into neurosyphilis was not uncommon in London. 1 in 4 men had STD and there was no cure. Mercury was used to treat it which could also cause mental issues.

Im not sure what you mean by launch as a candidate since he was launched in 1999 by Mark King with research from the I'ansons who tied Jacob Levy to witness Joseph Hyam Levy. The only known witness to possible suspect connection.

Insanity ran in his family. His immediate older brother Abraham committed suicide and Jacob attempted it in 1886. and right after the death of his father..

There are different types of insanity and Levy was committed in 1886 and then 1890. He was insane. It could have been caused by multiple factors including the gene pool.

Was he violent? According to his records he could be.
Was he a muderer? He is known to kill only animals by profession.
Did he live there? Middlesex Street london city side. All murders except Eddowes were outside London jurisdiction. He lived in the heart of the murders. He lived between Mitre and Goulston.

He checks virtually all boxes of any profile measurement.
Did he do it? Nobody has proven anyone is the Ripper

[Newbie]

Levy was suffering psychosis in 1886 when he was admitted to Essex Asylum. Neurosyphilis and mercury treatment combined with daily alcohol and drug treatments over an 11 month period, in an asylum, did not make him better. Eventhough he was released in 1887 he was not cured. Time proved that out.

Jacob Levy had motive against prostitutes and it is clear that both he and his older brother Abraham, who committed suicide in 1875 at age 22 and Jacob 19, were into gambling and vice. They grew up in the middle of this and products of this environment.

Levy also had no love for Immigrant Jews he would have blamed for his prosecution. Along with the Police and Justice System. 12 months of hard labor, believing yourself innocent, 11 months in a Victorian asylum. And then released to live in disgrace within the community you lived your entire life. In a class driven society?

There is no question im my mind that Jacob Levy may have been this killer. He was disconnected from reality.

Did he have the skill to murder these women? No doubt. As a kosher butcher he was trained in Shechita. Throat cutting was a given. Gutting of animals and organ removal for inspection and anatomy..are also a given.

If it wasnt Levy it was someone like him. But since Sagar never mentioned a Jewish Butcher by name, my guess is that it was likely Levy. Insane, wandering, and capable. Eventually taken to an Asylum by friends. As stated by Sagar and listed on Levys admission to Stone Asylum. That friend was his brother in law Isaac Barnett, married to his older sister Elizabeth, who also lived on Middlesex Street.

My only unknown is transition from animal to human. Other than a medical person with experience in Autopsy who had the skill to perform these murders in a repetitive fashion, who else fits? Since Doctors called to the scene considered butchers and were not convinced it was a medical person ( timing and method), the the question of transition comes forward.

Medical people would have no transistion. Is there an example of transistion? I think that would be Martha Tabrum. To say she was probed seems to fit. Why multiple stab wounds to specific areas of the body that would eventually morph to mutilations in the same areas? Animal skin is not like human skin. Human is tight as this killer learned trying to skin Mary Kelly. A medical person would not be concerned with cutting human skin. Tabrum illustrates targeted probing , not sporadic.

Anyway, for me Levy is a prime candidate. Unless another butcher surfaces but so far he is the only confirmed lunatic butcher wandering that half square mile area. Where he was also born and raised.

To me, getting his candidacy launched is not a matter of whether he had the skills to remove organs with precision,
It would be getting more information about the final stage of syphilis;
It would be a matter of gathering information about how much violence and murder were perpetuated by people driven mad by the final stage of syphillis: how many murders were committed by these people? I couldn't find a thing about it in my brief look.

All we have on Jacob Levy was that he was in the area (great!), he wandered the streets at night (great!), he knew how to use a knife (great!), and he had end stage syphillis (general paresis). Frankly, without the general paresis, he wouldn't be a candidate, or we would have to consider all the kosher butchers in White Chapel.

To me, more research needs to be done on general paresis. And if people are serious about him being the Ripper, they'd go about doing it.

Again, do they have the mental faculties to be able to establish cause and effect and seek revenge by this final stage? I wonder.

[Patrick Differ]

I would want to know more about general paresis (syphillitic insanity) before I really consider his candidacy. Yes, he was insane, wandered the streets at night and was in the neighborhood, and soon would have become completely incapacitated, perhaps in the year after the Mary Kelly murder .... but you really need to know the effects of that illness on the mind and body to be able to comfortably establish his potential guilt.

From what I found in a quick search from Wikipedia and another source:


A. General paresis usually develops 10 to 30 years after the initial syphilis infection. Due to advancements in antibiotics, neurosyphilis and consequently, general paresis is now very rare.
B. Eventually, (for the person that reaches this stage) the patient would become completely incapacitated, bed ridden, and would die, the process taking about three to five years on average.

I attempted to look up how common it is for one who has entered the state of general paresis (syphillitic insanity) to kill and couldnt' find anything ... I suspect its rare. Since Jacob Levy died in July of 1891, he reached the point of general paresis around 1886 - 88.

Offhand, when one has entered the stage of general paresis, revenge killing on those (gentile females prostitutes) to whom he blamed for his disease leading to his physical deterioration sounds too rational. By this stage, would he really be able to link his symptoms to prostitutes, or really know if there was anything wrong with him?

One more point, the Ripper murders were more than just revenge killings ... they were lust murders: he killed the victim quickly and then went into his bizarre ritual of cutting up the body.

Levy was suffering psychosis in 1886 when he was admitted to Essex Asylum. Neurosyphilis and mercury treatment combined with daily alcohol and drug treatments over an 11 month period, in an asylum, did not make him better. Eventhough he was released in 1887 he was not cured. Time proved that out.

Jacob Levy had motive against prostitutes and it is clear that both he and his older brother Abraham, who committed suicide in 1875 at age 22 and Jacob 19, were into gambling and vice. They grew up in the middle of this and products of this environment.

Levy also had no love for Immigrant Jews he would have blamed for his prosecution. Along with the Police and Justice System. 12 months of hard labor, believing yourself innocent, 11 months in a Victorian asylum. And then released to live in disgrace within the community you lived your entire life. In a class driven society?

There is no question im my mind that Jacob Levy may have been this killer. He was disconnected from reality.

Did he have the skill to murder these women? No doubt. As a kosher butcher he was trained in Shechita. Throat cutting was a given. Gutting of animals and organ removal for inspection and anatomy..are also a given.

If it wasnt Levy it was someone like him. But since Sagar never mentioned a Jewish Butcher by name, my guess is that it was likely Levy. Insane, wandering, and capable. Eventually taken to an Asylum by friends. As stated by Sagar and listed on Levys admission to Stone Asylum. That friend was his brother in law Isaac Barnett, married to his older sister Elizabeth, who also lived on Middlesex Street.

My only unknown is transition from animal to human. Other than a medical person with experience in Autopsy who had the skill to perform these murders in a repetitive fashion, who else fits? Since Doctors called to the scene considered butchers and were not convinced it was a medical person ( timing and method), the the question of transition comes forward.

Medical people would have no transistion. Is there an example of transistion? I think that would be Martha Tabrum. To say she was probed seems to fit. Why multiple stab wounds to specific areas of the body that would eventually morph to mutilations in the same areas? Animal skin is not like human skin. Human is tight as this killer learned trying to skin Mary Kelly. A medical person would not be concerned with cutting human skin. Tabrum illustrates targeted probing , not sporadic.

Anyway, for me Levy is a prime candidate. Unless another butcher surfaces but so far he is the only confirmed lunatic butcher wandering that half square mile area. Where he was also born and raised.

[Newbie]

Charles Booth's study of Whitechapel at the time of Ripper illustrates the Jewish population by location and percentage. The murders all took place in predominantly Jewish neighborhoods. The victims , all at least casual prostitutes, lived at least for a year or more in the heart of the Jewish community.

There is however a difference when talking about the Whitechapel Jewish community because it was actually 2 communites. The existing Anglicized legacy Jews who were there since the early 1700's and the Eastern European Jews escaping the Russian Tsars. Stride is the only victim murdered in the Immigrant community which was only one block over from the Lipski murder the previous year. According to Booth, Bucks Row was also predominantly Jewish.

Would a gentile target gentile prostitutes in predominantly Jewish neighborhoods to blame the Jews? The immigrant Jews certainly became the focus of law enforcement. However the legacy Jews worked for decades to assimilate as Englishman. They themselves had little affinity for their immigrant bretheren. Even their legacy paper Jewish Chronicle was highly critical towards them.

Why was this killer never caught. Was he under everyones noses? The Eddowes murder and apron timeline certainly points to a man with a possible lair right in the middle of the legacy Jewish stronghold. And earlier with Stride the attack was in the heart of the Jewish immigrant Socialist movement.

The demograpbic Booth paints shows prostitutes being murdered in Jewish neighborhoods. The effect in real time was immigrant Jews being targeted by law enforcement. Not gentiles or legacy Jews. Yet he was never caught.

This killer was shrewd and cunning and a phantom. Insane but controlled as he killed in silence. The immigrant Jews were an easy patsy for a local gentile or legacy Jew. Leather Apron.Where would a legacy Jew murder gentile women? Where were the women he obviously hated? In the heart of the Jewish neighborhoods. Neighnorhoods that were being rehabilitated by Wealthy Jewish philanthropists.

Jack the Ripper killed in the neighborhood he grew up in. How else could he escape so easily? Even under Police surge he was not caught.

What were possible motives? Revenge for syphilis is an obvious one. 1 in 4 men had STD. Hatred for immigrant Jews? Personal reason? Hatred for Law Enforcement? Falsely accused. Hatred for Justice? Ruining his life and stigma.

The bodies, especially Chapman and Eddowes and then Kelly show a man likely living between Mitre Square and Dorset and near Goulston Street. Someone used to cutting up animals. I would add his profession was repetitive and usually in silence. The bodies illustrate this and the fact that no one heard a thing. Throats cut then gutting the abdomen are repetitive butcher methodology.

Why was Robert Sagar keeping track of a Jewish butcher? One he never named but was convinced was this killer?

Jacob Levy is very compelling because he checks more boxes than any suspect so far. He lived in the middle of every murder. Remember he also lived on Fieldgate Street for 4 years which was central to Nichols and Stride. He was falsely convicted by an immigrant Jewish butcher named Hyam Sampson in a gentile justice system. His motives against a Society who he felt betrayed by speaks of Revenge. Unfortunates were easy prey as Whitechapel was his turf. And he knew the kill method and was an expert in knives and their use.

Was the killer, in his neurosyphlitic mind transfering his profession from animal to human? He fell far from grace and became stigmatized as a convicted criminal lunatic. What did he have to lose? Was he attempting to show everyone he felt was responsible for his fall, that he was the " greatest" butcher. He was the Master. Was it that simple?

Would love to see other suspect arguments in summary. Any takers??

M

I would want to know more about general paresis (syphillitic insanity) before I really consider his candidacy. Yes, he was insane, wandered the streets at night and was in the neighborhood, and soon would have become completely incapacitated, perhaps in the year after the Mary Kelly murder .... but you really need to know the effects of that illness on the mind and body to be able to comfortably establish his potential guilt.

From what I found in a quick search from Wikipedia and another source:


A. General paresis usually develops 10 to 30 years after the initial syphilis infection. Due to advancements in antibiotics, neurosyphilis and consequently, general paresis is now very rare.
B. Eventually, (for the person that reaches this stage) the patient would become completely incapacitated, bed ridden, and would die, the process taking about three to five years on average.

I attempted to look up how common it is for one who has entered the state of general paresis (syphillitic insanity) to kill and couldnt' find anything ... I suspect its rare. Since Jacob Levy died in July of 1891, he reached the point of general paresis around 1886 - 88.

Offhand, when one has entered the stage of general paresis, revenge killing on those (gentile females prostitutes) to whom he blamed for his disease leading to his physical deterioration sounds too rational. By this stage, would he really be able to link his symptoms to prostitutes, or really know if there was anything wrong with him?

One more point, the Ripper murders were more than just revenge killings ... they were lust murders: he killed the victim quickly and then went into his bizarre ritual of cutting up the body.