Time-gap between Eddowes murder and Goulston Graffito

[Batman]

Stride could speak Yiddish.

[Rosella]

Chapman was a reasonably intelligent (and cunning) individual. Even though he stayed mostly within his local community it's not incomprehensible that he could have learned a few basic words of English, like "Yes", "No", "Please" and "How much?" within a few weeks of his arrival in London.

[Batman]

Indeed, I was thinking the whole shebang.

It also suggests the prostitutes at the time had not learned the basics of other well-known languages sufficiently to negotiate a deal. I mean we all know prostitutes lack that human ability because.... errr... well guess they don't lack the capacity at all.

Do prostitutes learn the basics of the languages of their most popular customers? I think same today as it was back then, so yes.

The graffiti is another matter. I don't think a Jew wrote it anyway let alone an semi-literate one, but it does seem semi-literate... but cockney.

[Harry D]

lol I don't think solicitation would be very hard, but the negotiations would perhaps prove confusing...

Indeed, I was thinking the whole shebang.

[RockySullivan]

Hello, Helena.

Thanks for your insight. That pretty much rules Chapman out of writing the GSG, then, and it's difficult to believe he could solicit prostitutes without speaking a word of English.

lol I don't think solicitation would be very hard, but the negotiations would perhaps prove confusing...

[Harry D]

Having immersed my life in Chapman's for a couple of years, coupled with my Polish heritage, my educated opinion is that Chapman almost certainly didn't know a word of English when he left Poland, and in 1888 his English language skills would have been very, very poor indeed. He obtained work in a job in which he needed no written and almost no spoken English. Even by 1903 the letters he wrote from prison were so illiterate as to be almost indecipherable.

Hope that helps, Harry.

Helena

Hello, Helena.

Thanks for your insight. That pretty much rules Chapman out of writing the GSG, then, and it's difficult to believe he could solicit prostitutes without speaking a word of English.

[HelenaWojtczak]

There's serious doubts that Chapman could speak English, let alone write it legibly, and you appear to be a believer of the GSG.

Having immersed my life in Chapman's for a couple of years, coupled with my Polish heritage, my educated opinion is that Chapman almost certainly didn't know a word of English when he left Poland, and in 1888 his English language skills would have been very, very poor indeed. He obtained work in a job in which he needed no written and almost no spoken English. Even by 1903 the letters he wrote from prison were so illiterate as to be almost indecipherable.

Hope that helps, Harry.

Helena

[Michael W Richards]

Sorry for not responding to some direct questions, Ive been a little swamped lately.

To Caz, there is a very simple and Im sure quite understandable reason why I don't associate the Stride murder with Jack , and the main reason I don't add Eddowes into the "Group" without reservation is because of the type of injuries she sustained, the skill with which the actions were carried out, and some interesting circumstantial evidence which may offer a real reason for killing Kate beyond the accepted "insanity of the killer" notion.

The circumstantial evidence in the Stride case isn't as provocative in terms of a potential motive, what it is though is inconsistent. With only uncorroborated stories from people directly associated with the club itself, stories that disagree about many fundamental issues regarding this murder, and stories that must be suspect in some cases due to the fact the people were employed by the club. The single witness that has any corroboration for facts he/she described, (which include a later validated account of seeing someone pass by the gates at a time when she said she was standing at that spot...and the fact she saw a young couple just as others noted), is of course Fanny. Without any alleged conflict, without any unseen arrival, and without a reason to continue wondering whom Brown saw, she addresses many issues that plague the non-validated accounts.

These murders are not solvable by assuming anything about any one of them Caz, nor about what a serial killer might have done in this situation, they are still unrelated by any evidence and to date, pure supposition.

To Sherlock, the above covers part of your question, and yes, I think the GSG was intentionally left with a message to sub textually suggest blame for the Jews for the murder on Jewish property that night. The apron section is a signature indicating the author was the killer in Mitre Square.

The thing with Kate is, as far as I know...she is the only Canonical victim that expressed interest in providing the police with a name for the killer at large,.... and if I was that person and heard this threat..be it the actual killer or someone who was dangerously criminally involved,... I might be tempted to silence her. Considering the climate in the area at the time, I also might consider cutting her up like some previous unsolved cases to confuse an investigation into believing this killing was by the same person.

That's a very powerful motive,...and its possible that Kates murder was because of her loose lips.

I also believe that her facial wounds were likely a warning to anyone else to keep their nose out of other peoples business.

And..... that its possible the police knew she would go to Mitre when she left Bishopsgate. To meet someone whom she might be trying to blackmail for more than the publicly generated reward monies.

Cheers

[Batman]

Points taken. I am not a fan of a Jewish suspect but lots of things point to him while some don't. I keep an open mind on Chapman.

[Harry D]

However I think today that Sugden could very well be right. BTW, I am still not in favour of a Jewish suspect, but there are too many coincidences with this man to simply overlook him yet again, which I can do because he is a Jew not a gentile. However he has the CV for JtR and the murders started and stopped when he arrived to and then quit London.

Speaking as someone who subscribes to the belief that the Ripper murders have the trappings of a Jewish suspect, I draw the line at someone like Chapman. There's serious doubts that Chapman could speak English, let alone write it legibly, and you appear to be a believer of the GSG.

Furthermore, there's nothing set in stone which refutes the idea that the Ripper couldn't alter his MO, but a man driven by the kind of post-mortem fantasies witnessed with those victims would not be able to resist doing something similar to the bodies he poisoned, and as far as I know, Chapman didn't. If you're going down that route, and taking on board the argument about timing, William Bury is a far more compelling candidate than Chapman could ever hope to be.

[HelenaWojtczak]

Have you read the book by Helena Wojtczak

http://astore.amazon.com/casebookjackth01/detail/1904109225

Hands down the best book written to date on the subject.....
What we are left with is the story of a cold hearted killer; but one who was not the elusive Ripper. The actual hard facts just don’t support this conclusion.

Pretty much the definitive book on Chapman.

Thank you Jon (Mr Wicker) for the praise. Much appreciated!

There are many more reviews (includes reviews by Casebook members) on this webpage: http://www.hastingspress.co.uk/chapman.html


Helena

[Bridewell]

When I first read Sugden and that his fav.susp was Chapman I felt it a bit of a let down to what was a great history book and especially his dismissal of Kozminski. In fact lots of people because of the DNA/shawl hoax have looked back at Sugden and gone, gosh, got it very wrong there.

However I think today that Sugden could very well be right. BTW, I am still not in favour of a Jewish suspect, but there are too many coincidences with this man to simply overlook him yet again, which I can do because he is a Jew not a gentile. However he has the CV for JtR and the murders started and stopped when he arrived to and then quit London.

Now I think apart from the Jewish aspect, he actually makes a hell of good suspect. Better than the usual noted 3.

As Wickerman said, in the last post but one, it is best to read Helena'a book before ascribing responsibility for the JtR murders to Chapman/Klosowski.

[Batman]

When I first read Sugden and that his fav.susp was Chapman I felt it a bit of a let down to what was a great history book and especially his dismissal of Kozminski. In fact lots of people because of the DNA/shawl hoax have looked back at Sugden and gone, gosh, got it very wrong there.

However I think today that Sugden could very well be right. BTW, I am still not in favour of a Jewish suspect, but there are too many coincidences with this man to simply overlook him yet again, which I can do because he is a Jew not a gentile. However he has the CV for JtR and the murders started and stopped when he arrived to and then quit London.

I don't think JtR needed to have exceptional knowledge about Whitechapel. Women seemed to lead him to their doom. We know he was very lucky and didn't seem to care about being caught in the act as long as he could escape. Changing an MO isn't a big deal, especially when you reach an apex like MJK. What next? You know?

I think the reason why I originally avoided Chapman was because it was too simple a solution and a bit of a letdown, lol.

Now I think apart from the Jewish aspect, he actually makes a hell of good suspect. Better than the usual noted 3.

[Wickerman]

You know what? Sugden could very well be right with Chapman. It could be that simple.

Have you read the book by Helena Wojtczak

http://astore.amazon.com/casebookjackth01/detail/1904109225

Hands down the best book written to date on the subject.....
What we are left with is the story of a cold hearted killer; but one who was not the elusive Ripper. The actual hard facts just don’t support this conclusion.

Pretty much the definitive book on Chapman.

[Batman]

I would say its just a grammer issue that anti-Stridists just happen to enjoy the benifits from.

What I do is pay attention to them, do the opposite, then accidentally land on something canonical.

That MTV generation has been fed too much Burger King. Have it your way, you know?

I like the older generational thinking that grew up with having nothing but the hope of a historian and a former PC to come around to get things together by scouring the depths of what time forgot.

You know what? Sugden could very well be right with Chapman. It could be that simple.