Time-gap between Eddowes murder and Goulston Graffito

[Sam Flynn]

Im sceptical that other buildings were as predominantly Jewish Sam.

You should check out the 1890s Jewish Map of the East End, Mike. The dark blue areas designate areas of high Jewish population density:

[GUT]

G'day Pinkmoon

Hi Sam,If our killer wanted to have a pop at the Jews why didn't he leave no doubt that the message was from him Why not add something about having just killed two women it would have been so easy to do that and he didn't.

Would have been easy to do wouldn't it?

[pinkmoon]

That would be true of many dwellings in the area, though, Mike.

One thing that strikes me is that, if he really wanted to have a pop at the Jews, why on earth he didn't target Bevis Marks synagogue, which was half a minute's jog away from Mitre Square. It would only have taken him a few seconds to drop the apron and scrawl a message, and how much more potent that message would have been.

Hi Sam,If our killer wanted to have a pop at the Jews why didn't he leave no doubt that the message was from him Why not add something about having just killed two women it would have been so easy to do that and he didn't.

[Michael W Richards]

...the fact that the club stories differ substantially in some cases regarding the "discovery" timing also hints at a whitewash attempt by the senior staff.

Cheers

[Michael W Richards]

That would be true of many dwellings in the area, though, Mike.

One thing that strikes me is that, if he really wanted to have a pop at the Jews, why on earth he didn't target Bevis Marks synagogue, which was half a minute's jog away from Mitre Square. It would only have taken him a few seconds to drop the apron and scrawl a message, and how much more potent that message would have been.

Im sceptical that other buildings were as predominantly Jewish Sam. And, as TW once pointed out, Goulston was the starting place for marches and demonstrations by the immigrant Jews, so that's another potential link.

The Club at Berner already had a reputation for "low men" and being what was referred to as an anarchists club, if the writing referred to local Jews would it be more damaging to all local Jews, the Synagogue, or that club?

To me its no surprise a murder took place at that club, the only surprise to me is that people assume by someone unconnected with the club. Why look for thugs when they attend that same club?

Cheers Sam

[Sam Flynn]

since its predominantly Jewish anyway, like 90%....the idea that he would know someone specific in the Model Homes as a catalyst for leaving the message isn't needed. If he left it there he would have known Jews lived there.

That would be true of many dwellings in the area, though, Mike.

One thing that strikes me is that, if he really wanted to have a pop at the Jews, why on earth he didn't target Bevis Marks synagogue, which was half a minute's jog away from Mitre Square. It would only have taken him a few seconds to drop the apron and scrawl a message, and how much more potent that message would have been.

[Michael W Richards]

...whether Jack knew their addresses? Unlikely, I'd have thought.

Seriously, though - unless I've missed something - is it a fact that Berner Street Club members lived in Wentworth Model Dwellings?

I believe that its been ascertained that at least 1 members brother lived there and since its predominantly Jewish anyway, like 90%....the idea that he would know someone specific in the Model Homes as a catalyst for leaving the message isn't needed. If he left it there he would have known Jews lived there.

The message doesn't seem to point to any specific Jew, at the club or anywhere else, hence my suggestion it was almost certainly from someone anti-semetic, rather than from a Jew. Why would an orthodox leave a message that blames all Jews rather than just a reformed Jew, as an example.

Cheers Sam

[Sam Flynn]

With so much tension in the air any number of people had cause to scribble graffiti castigating the Jews.

Indeed, and it stands to reason that the number of "non-Rippers" inclined to write such graffiti outnumbered the Ripper by hundreds, perhaps thousands, to one.

[Wickerman]

It appears the killer(s) had some grievance with the Jews, the obvious would be the amount of poverty and lack of opportunities. The Struggle for British inhabitants to endure would be having to compete for jobs, share the already overcrowded East End etc. It appeared that the Jews were financially secure judging by the business s etc they owned. The GSG seems to be hinting at a kind of diplomatic immunity that the Jews appeared to have, which obviously infuriated British inhabitants of the East End. Liz's murder may have been to demonstrate a protest against admittance of the Jews to this already overcrowded area. It could a good reason why this GSG was written, if written by the killer.

Well, it appears the writer, had some grievance with the Jews. Whether the killer wrote it is a different question.

That said, the rest of your post is right on the money. There was an intense dislike of the Jews, as you say, for the fact they will work for less, thereby reducing the working wage.

Even the British born Jews did not like the sudden influx of all the foreign Jews from Europe, they were seen as a different class, a lower class, so even within Jewish society there were class divisions, at least across the East End.
This quarter of London was in a constant state of tension between the local Brits and the foreign Jews, the potential for riots was ever present.
Fishman deals with this issue in his, East End 1888.

With so much tension in the air any number of people had cause to scribble graffiti castigating the Jews.

[Natasha]

Hi GUT

That's ok, don't worry about it

[GUT]

G'day Natasha

It appears the killer(s) had some grievance with the Jews, the obvious would be the amount of poverty and lack of opportunities. The Struggle for British inhabitants to endure would be having to compete for jobs, share the already overcrowded East End etc. It appeared that the Jews were financially secure judging by the business s etc they owned. The GSG seems to be hinting at a kind of diplomatic immunity that the Jews appeared to have, which obviously infuriated British inhabitants of the East End. Liz's murder may have been to demonstrate a protest against admittance of the Jews to this already overcrowded area. It could a good reason why this GSG was written, if written by the killer.

I realise that, that is why I said " if the killer wrote the GSG"

Sorry if I misunderstood you, but you started off with "It appears the killer(s) had some grievance with the Jews," so I took you to be saying that such a grievance existed.

Again sorry if I misunderstood you.

[Natasha]

But any grievance against Jews is only supportable IF the killer wrote GSG.

Hi GUT

I realise that, that is why I said " if the killer wrote the GSG"

[DVV]

The killer did write it. Because somebody with a "strong Jewish appearance" prevented him to mutilate Liz Sride.

[GUT]

G'day Natasha

Hi Michael

Thank you

It appears the killer(s) had some grievance with the Jews, the obvious would be the amount of poverty and lack of opportunities. The Struggle for British inhabitants to endure would be having to compete for jobs, share the already overcrowded East End etc. It appeared that the Jews were financially secure judging by the business s etc they owned. The GSG seems to be hinting at a kind of diplomatic immunity that the Jews appeared to have, which obviously infuriated British inhabitants of the East End. Liz's murder may have been to demonstrate a protest against admittance of the Jews to this already overcrowded area. It could a good reason why this GSG was written, if written by the killer.

But any grievance against Jews is only supportable IF the killer wrote GSG.

[Natasha]

The fact that there are club members living in those Model homes does make one wonder about a connection Natasha, but its my understanding that that location was also significant to local jews as a gathering point for marches and protests.

If the GSG was to try and suggest that the murderer of Kate Eddowes, as the cloth verifies, seems to feel that Jews will evade blame for something they bear guilt in, then I would say it refers directly to Berner Street. Since the senior staff at the club were suggesting openly that this womans murder was "another" in a series of unsolved murders in the area, they could be considered as attempting to cast blame away from the club.

I think the idea has merit myself, but I doubt many others would see it our way.

You make some great contributions to discussions Natasha, keep it up.

Cheers

Hi Michael

Thank you

It appears the killer(s) had some grievance with the Jews, the obvious would be the amount of poverty and lack of opportunities. The Struggle for British inhabitants to endure would be having to compete for jobs, share the already overcrowded East End etc. It appeared that the Jews were financially secure judging by the business s etc they owned. The GSG seems to be hinting at a kind of diplomatic immunity that the Jews appeared to have, which obviously infuriated British inhabitants of the East End. Liz's murder may have been to demonstrate a protest against admittance of the Jews to this already overcrowded area. It could a good reason why this GSG was written, if written by the killer.