Time-gap between Eddowes murder and Goulston Graffito

[JTRSickert]

Greetings everyone!

I wanted to talk about a subject that has been bugging me lately. I want to go over the chronology of the morning of the 30th September 1888, and then pose a rather interesting question. OK, here we go:

1:45am: PC Watkins discovers the mutilated body of Catherine Eddowes in Mitre Square, and reports he saw nothing there only 15 minutes before.

2:20am: PC Alfred Long, walking on his beat, goes down Goulston St., reports not seeing anything unusual.

2:50am: Long again goes down Goulston St. and discovers the bloody apron and the message.

So, if we take Long at his word and agree that, at the very least, the apron was NOT there at 2:20am, then that means JTR didn't go down Goulston St. until sometime between 2:20am-2:50am. So, let's compromise and say the apron was left at around 2:35am approximately. That's still a 50 minute gap between when JTR left Mitre Square and the time he went down Goulston St.

My question to everyone is: what do YOU think JTR was doing for that approx. 50 minute duration? Did he go somewhere to clean up? Did he deposit his body parts somewhere where he could pick them up later? Did he remain in the City, or did head back to Whitechapel right away.

It definitely wouldn't have taken 50 minutes to go from one location to the other because Goulston St., is right near the City of London boundary!

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi JTR,

I think it's possible he went to a 'bolthole', changed clothes, cleaned up, left the organs, and went back out to deposit the apron and chalk his message. However, as noted by many posters over the years, there's another possibility. That PC Long was mistaken or lying and therefore the apron had been there since moments after the murder. What I do not think likely at all is that the Ripper walked the streets of Whitechapel for 45 minutes or so.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

If the apron were black or at least a dark color, and it was night, and the PCs were not looking specifically for an apron or anything resembling it, I am not surprised that they might have missed it.

c.d.

[Michael W Richards]

PC Long stated clearly..."It was not there", referring to his pass-by around 2:20. No ambiguity at all. So....unless someone wants to call him a bold faced liar we are left with the more than hour long gap in time to explain away.

Its not really that difficult a question...the man stated it wasnt there, the implication being that he looked "there" when he passed. The Grafitto is another matter, it could have been there all along.

Cheers

[pinkmoon]

If the policemen are lying why? Could they have skived of for a cuppa and a warm in the warehouse with the night watchman?

[Paddy]

The Apron

I always assumed it was a white apron, Was it, does anyone know? Also would she have gone out that night in a white apron that would be more likely used for work?

Pat........................

[Paddy]

Bolt Hole

He could have been a night watchman some where near...
Pat............

[Sam Flynn]

Long was a policeman, not a litter-warden. It's hardly surprising he didn't note its presence on his first march-past - he simply wasn't primed to be on the lookout for discarded scraps of cloth.

[Cogidubnus]

I'm with you Gareth...he simply didn't notice first time around...especially since it was near the foot of the steps inside the stairwell, which perhaps he didn't fully investigate on his previous circuit...

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

dirty

Hello CD, Pat. Supposedly the apron was quite dirty.

Cheers.
LC

[Michael W Richards]

I'm with you Gareth...he simply didn't notice first time around...especially since it was near the foot of the steps inside the stairwell, which perhaps he didn't fully investigate on his previous circuit...

All the best

Dave

If thats the case Dave, and you and Sam are correct, then why did he state that he didnt see it rather than he didnt notice anything? Why would he state something empirically when just guessing would be satisfactory? Surely a statement like " I went past and saw nothing of note", or "I dont recall seeing anything there"...why then, "It was not there".

I dont see why he would be compelled to word it in that manner if he was unsure, when using "I dont recall seeing it" would suffice.

Lots of witness, police and civilian, gave statements that allowed for them to be corrected.."to the best of my recollection...", I dont remember seeing anything"....., "I cant be sure"......

Why not Long?

Cheers

[Sam Flynn]

Why would he state something empirically when just guessing would be satisfactory? Surely a statement like " I went past and saw nothing of note", or "I dont recall seeing anything there"..

His words come to us in summary form in The Times, rather than verbatim, and that can often mislead. Even within these constraints, however, and in the same newspaper, Long responds thus to a question from solicitor Henry Crawford: "at about 20 minutes after 2, [Long] passed over the spot where the apron was found. If it was there then [Long] would not necessarily have seen it, as it was in the building". (My italics.)

[Cogidubnus]

Thanks Gareth...I'd have replied precisely the same...

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

time and space

Hello All. If Long missed the piece first time round, that would help bridge the temporal gap.

Of course, one must STILL deal with the distance anomaly.

Cheers.
LC

[JTRSickert]

For me personally I've always been of the opinion that he didn't take a direct route back to his lodgings.Since he knew that spectators were gonna want to come out to see the victim's body, my guess is he crept along theside streets, ducking in and out of dark corners in case someone was coming down the street, perhaps stopping at a spot to clean himself and his knife off. Hell, maybe after doing that, he stopped in a pub to get himself a shot of whiskey or brandy or something strong to calm his nerves (unless all the pubs were closed by then). Then, as he was going down Goulston street, he may have noticed the graffiti on the wall and, as a little joke or in order to deceive the public, he deliberately deposited the apron there before heading home.

Yes, I'm one who believes he didn't write t he message but I don't think it was a coincidence that it was jsut left there on a whim.