Abberline solved the GSG

[Damaso Marte]

The Ripper took away Chapman's uterus. Not ripper-like, if compared to Nichols.
He cut Eddowes' nose : again, not ripper-like.
He killed MJK indoors. Not ripper-like at all.

Kurten killed women and young girls. One day, he had the opportunity to kill a man. He did it.

There are plenty examples as such.

The murders all vary from each other, yes, but to the extent that you see constants, it is that the killer was stealthy and quick. Nichols, Chapman, and Eddowes were all subdued first, with minimal violence, then lowered to the ground and cut. In the Eddowes case, there was a night watchman nearby who allegedly heard and saw nothing. I'll grant you that it's possible that Kelly wasn't quietly subdued - at the same time that killing was done in an environment where stealth is less important.

I don't believe that the Ripper would engage in the sort of violence and showmanship that BSM did. This, along with the presence of pipe man, leads me to conclude that either there was a double event or Schwartz was telling the truth, but not both. I choose to discount Schwartz, much as the police at the time did.

[DVV]

I choose to discount Schwartz, much as the police at the time did.

Hi Damaso

I'm far from sure they did discount Schwartz.
And pretty certain they believed in a double event.

Cheers

[curious]

the ripper lost his temper when Stride wouldn't go where he wanted her to

I'm not sure that I follow the reasoning behind that idea.

Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes, even Tabram, are likely to have led "Jack" to the place where they died. All are quite reasonable places for an "assignation" - darkish, off the beaten track, with a wooden support to lean against.

Where is there ANY basis to assume that "Jack" would have wanted to direct them? Enlighten me please.

Phil

Hi, Phil,
To me, it seems the poster is saying Stride would not go off somewhere quiet, somewhere appropriate for her business and her killer's business.

IF, and that's a big IF, BSM was the same man that had been "romancing" her for awhile, who was told, "Not tonight, another night" . . . . then his being angry is easy to guess at.

And, she would not go where he wanted, even if he expected her to lead the way.

curious

[Damaso Marte]

And pretty certain they believed in a double event.

I believe in a double event. But I don't believe in Israel Schwartz. I believe that this view is fairly similar to the police view at the time.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Curious

IF, and that's a big IF, BSM was the same man that had been "romancing" her for awhile, who was told, "Not tonight, another night" . . . . then his being angry is easy to guess at.

Not such a big IF, if you compare the two descriptions and that it was only an hour between them.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Damaso

But I don't believe in Israel Schwartz. I believe that this view is fairly similar to the police view at the time.

I don`t think that was the case.
Do you have a source for this please?

[DVV]

Not such a big IF, if you compare the two descriptions and that it was only an hour between them.

Hi Jon,

You sure believe in Marschwartz !
And so do I.

Cheers

[Jon Guy]

You sure believe in Marschwartz !
And so do I.

Indeed, mon ami.

Same man or twins

[c.d.]

Which then begs the question, why kill her?

Schwartz only saw an assault, no knife. You don't hang for pushing a streetwalker onto her ass.

Absolutely excellent post, Wickerman. Short but sweet. You make a point that way too often goes overlooked. All assaults are equal but some are more equal than others.

c.d.

[Jon Guy]

Hi CD

You make a point that way too often goes overlooked.

As Abby Normal has mentioned, perhaps Schwartz didn`t realise he was witnessing the actual murder. Which is why she was still dead despite Schwartz`s interuption.The not very loud screams could have been because her windpipe was severed.

I think of the Meredith Hunter murder by a Hells Angel caught on camera at a Stones gig. At first glance it looks like just a bit of argy bargy but he was actually being stabbed several times with a knife.

Also, of course, most people who murder like this don`t reason the same way as normal people do. If it was the Ripper, then we`re dealing with a fruitcake of the higjhest order.

[c.d.]

Hello Jon,

This is certainly a possibility but several things come immediately to mind. Schwartz didn't see a knife which of course doesn't mean that the BS man didn't have one only that Schwartz didn't see it. You would think that if the BS man wanted to add a little authority to his Lipski threat that he would have brandished the knife to go along with it. Finally, we have to wonder why he would have allowed Schwartz to get away. The BS man couldn't be certain just how much Schwartz saw. And then of course, there is always the cachous question. Why didn't they spill out when she was pushed to the ground?

c.d.

[c.d.]

Sorry, I forgot the most important point. Schwartz's story starts with the BS man stopping and talking to Liz. So if the BS man goes on to kill her then he did not initially see Schwartz or saw him but didn't care that their was now a witness to murder and proceeded to cut Liz's throat right on the spot.

c.d.

[Jon Guy]

Hi CD

And then of course, there is always the cachous question. Why didn't they spill out when she was pushed to the ground?.

She needn`t have spilled them when she fell.
She could ahve made fist around them to defend herself and could easlily have used a fist to break her fall.
Many if not most martial arts teach you to roll with a fist.
Not saying Stride was a Kung Fu expert, but it`s what I`d do, and I`m not a Kung Fu expert either.

Also, very relavent point about the attack having already happening, or possibly over, when Schwartz caught BS Man`s attention.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jon,

Stride Inquest—2nd October

[Doctor Blackwell]—The left hand, lying on the ground, was partially closed, and contained a small packet of cachous wrapped in tissue paper.

Stride Inquest—3rd October

[Doctor Phillips]—The left arm was extended from elbow, and a packet of cachous was in the hand. Similar ones were in the gutter. I took them from the hand and gave them to Dr. Blackwell.

Stride Inquest—5th October

[Doctor Phillips, recalled]—Some of the cachous were scattered about the yard.

[Doctor Blackwell, recalled]—I may add that I removed the cachous from the left hand of the deceased, which was nearly open. The packet was lodged between the thumb and the first finger, and was partially hidden from view. It was I who spilt them in removing them from the hand.

It's like the final scene of Spartacus.

Regards,

Simon

[DVV]

Thanks Simon !

I was about to quote the inquest, then I realized I was not Trevor Marriott.

Cheers