The word JUWES

[Cogidubnus]

Secondly, re handwriting. if Bury could write a letter like his confession to the priest than I imagine that penmanship was much better then than it was now and even a sophisticated letter like the dear boss could have been written from someone from the working class.

I think it depends Abby...some of my East End forebears could, from the evidence I've been shown, write at least as grammatically as we...and often more neatly...some, on the other hand, although they could sign their name, were functionally only semi-literate...it may or may not be that relevant, but even my mother born in Wapping as late as the 1920s falls into the latter category...she had a fairly neat round hand, but couldn't properly express herself or spell "for toffee"...so I think we have to be just a little careful when making our judgements...

All the best

Dave

[Monty]

Monty,
I forgot to add that Wentworth Model Dwellings were brand spanking new buildings - less than two years old. I doubt that they were graffiti covered and new graffiti would have stood out.
Also Swanson had been appointed as Warren's eyes and ears. Who rubbed the message off? Warren! Swanson had a motive in implying that the message had been there for a longer period.
Halse was City police - the force that wanted the message photographed.

Lechmere,

There's really no need to let me know that the dwellings were completed in 87, I've the clearance and construction plans.

I'm not stating new graffiti wouldn't have been noted, I'm stating you assume it would have been removed immediately. However one arguement you should have brought out was that the residents themselves stated that they did not recall seeing the writing. Doesn't mean it wasn't there before 1:45am.

Warren had no need for a motive. He is clear in why he ordered its removal. The time it was there is irrelevant to him.

And I'm amused you felt the need to inform me that Halse was a City DC, and that the City Police wanted it photographed. Seeing as I've been working on their photographic procedures for the article in this months Ripperologist.

Monty

[Phil Carter]

Phil,

My words were tongue in cheek.

Relax

Monty

Hello Monty,

No problem!
Am very relaxed.
Not easy to tell a persons state of mind is it

Actually, am quite happy. Am moving (at last!) tomorrow.

Best wishes

Phil

[Lechmere]

Monty
I do apologise if it seems like I am teaching my granny how to suck eggs, or an old dog new tricks, but maybe Swanson realised that Warren's reason for wiping the message was a bit pathetic and was trying to offer a reason why his boss's apparent blunder was not of great importance.

[curious4]

Dyslexis

Hello Rivkah,

Dyslexia has certain common features, not bad spelling alone. "losing" the last letter in a words, as in "knif", for example, and the ability to spell quite complicated words, while misspelling "easy" ones. Don't have the complete list handy, but I have posted on this before, giving further details, search under "dyslexia" and you should find it.

Best wishes,
C4

[Monty]

Lechmere,

Ah, I see you point now,apologies

Yes, its possible.

I don't think Warrens reason was a pathetic one, just a hasty one compounded by inter force rivalry.

Monty

[moonbegger]

Hello All ,

Without wishing to point a finger at anyone in particular ...

I still find it a Remarkable coincidence ( if in fact it is ) that we have a blatant Freemason reference ( Juwes ) chalked on a wall , beneath it is another , in the form of the (bloodied Apron) that was cut from the victim.
And then we have a leading Freemason (Warren) erase the message for no apparent (to my mind) good or realistic reason .. and yes i have heard them all thanks !

And yet , we still choose to look elsewhere in futile hope that we will stumble upon something more damming or convincing than what we actually have in front of us....

I find that Equally as remarkable !

cheers

moonbegger .

[Monty]

However its not a blatent Freemason reference.

Warrens reason was a very sound one.

Monty

[moonbegger]

I stand corrected .. You are right Monty , it was not Blatant at all , in fact it was very subtle .

cheers

moonbegger .

[Simon Wood]

Hi Moonbegger,

The spelling of "Juwes" has no connotations in Freemasonry, blatant or subtle.

It's time this particular canard was afforded a decent burial.

Regards,

Simon

[Bridewell]

Hi Moonbegger,

The spelling of "Juwes" has no connotations in Freemasonry, blatant or subtle.

It's time this particular canard was afforded a decent burial.

Regards,

Simon

And so the piece of apron is just a piece of apron (with blood & poo thereon).

Regards, Bridewell.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Colin,

What else could it possibly have been?

Regards,

Simon

[Supe]

Simon,

The spelling of "Juwes" has no connotations in Freemasonry, blatant or subtle. It's time this particular canard was afforded a decent burial.

Amen. I will gladly stand with you and -- I would hope -- almost everyone in the field on that point.

Don.

[Michael W Richards]

Simon,

The spelling of "Juwes" has no connotations in Freemasonry, blatant or subtle. It's time this particular canard was afforded a decent burial.

Amen. I will gladly stand with you and -- I would hope -- almost everyone in the field on that point.

Don.

It might have Don.. had it been spelled "The Ju's".

Cheers

PS. Yes Bridewell, Halse was it. And thanks Monty for the info on Bishopsgate and the shift timing, even though I dont subscribe to the theory of "nothing" by kate being the "nothing" on the wall, it cannot be dismissed entirely I suppose. One wonders though when she gave her name as Mary Kelly later that night whether giving that name doomed her.

[moonbegger]

Hello all ,

Figured this may be of some interest ,

Simply put, the word "Juwe" and "Juwes" existed prior to the use of the word "Jew". This word "Jew" appears in the English language after the translation of the bible (King James) from Latin into Anglo-Saxon (English). Hence it is a relatively modern transliteration of the Hebrew, "Iudhi/Iudha".
Ergo, the word "Juwes" existed as the term for those referred to in historical documentation as "Jews" long long ago...and surprising, during 1888 and even TODAY! It exists in the British Museum Library (just down the road from Whitechapel) and the Bodlian Library, Oxford (just up the road from Whitechapel), in fact, up and down, and in me Laydis Chamber.
Who would know of this term "Juwes", in 1888? I ASSUME scholars of the ilk of Warren, Anderson, and of course, the Chief Rabbi.
Hic Rhodus hic saltus!

moonbegger