The word JUWES

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Monty, Don,

As far as what height the Grafitto was written at Monty, Ive read several variations on that theme but the consensus to me indicates that it was around 4.5 feet from the ground.

I agree with much of your post Don, and in fact if this was just random grafitti the height or location wouldnt surprise me,..as you said, such scrawlings are not restricted to eye level or above. And I know a few teachers and professors who will say exactly what you said...standards of literacy, grammar and spelling have all declined in the passing years.

All things considered though...the evenings events, the high profile of local jews in those events and the apron section found so near to the writing, Ive come to my own conclusion that the writing was likely written by an adult, semi-literate, but not a Jewish one.

Notice I didnt specify by the killer, or the man who took the apron section to that location, or whether it was by a male or female.

My best regards.

[Lechmere]

The slogan, while not being specifically anti-Semitic is certainly accusatory in nature.
It seems unlikley that it would have remained long in a block inhabited overwhemingly by Jewish people.
The police reports indicate that the graffiti seemed to be fresh. It was in such a location that if it were not fresh then people passing in and out of the dwelling would have tended to rub and smudge it.
The juxtaposition of the graffiti by the only piece of physical evidence to emerge during the case and on the night when the Ripper was quite possibly (some would say probably) disturbed by someone who was associated with a Jewish club and if the Ripper were a local he would be aware that the club was predominantly used by Jewish people, would be a remarkable coincidence.
The simplest explanation is that the Ripper wrote it and Juwes meant Jews. It is probable that the Ripper was educated before universal education was established and any education he may have had would probably not have extended to learning how to spell the word Jews.

[Monty]

Yet there is no mention of the crimes, Eddowes, Stride....anything connected to what has happened during those few weeks, in the text.

As I've stated numerous times, the context isn't clear. Most assume its anti semetic, I see a defiant passage, so the assumption that it wouldn't have lasted doesn't entirely ring true.

Finally, Swanson describes the wrining as blurred, contradicting Halses 'fresh' comment. I accept Halse was at the scene however Swanson (who was obviously compiling his report on the back of others - as he did throughout) surely wouldn't have inserted 'blurred' unless he was informed as such.

PS, 4.5 feet is not crouching.

Monty

[Wyatt Earp]

It is probable that the Ripper was educated before universal education was established and any education he may have had would probably not have extended to learning how to spell the word Jews.

One possibility I think we should consider is that the word might have been deliberately misspelled as an expression of disdain toward "the Jews." For example, there was a 2003 incident in New Mexico in which a certain racial epithet was spelled as "neggur." Hard to view that as anything but a deliberate misspelling. Might be the same principle at work here.

[Wyatt Earp]

Finally, Swanson describes the wrining as blurred, contradicting Halses 'fresh' comment. I accept Halse was at the scene however Swanson (who was obviously compiling his report on the back of others - as he did throughout) surely wouldn't have inserted 'blurred' unless he was informed as such.

If this message was chalked in low lighting conditions, I think it's especially possible that the chalker's hand could have brushed up against the wall as he was writing it and perhaps introduced a little on-the-spot blurring.

PS, 4.5 feet is not crouching.

I've never really understood the height objection. I'm about 6'3", and if I brace myself by putting a hand on one knee, I have no trouble whatsoever writing at that height. Since the witness descriptions suggest a person much shorter than me, I don't see any issue here at all.

[Michael W Richards]

Hi again,

4.5 feet on me is roughly at my throat level Monty, so if I wanted to write on a wall at that height I would still likely need to crouch....Id use my focus eye line as the level to be maintained as I wrote. A neat schoolboy hand, to me, suggests that the letters were approximately the same size and were, as much as could be expected, written horizontally.

Ive been ruminating over this idea today, regarding what you said about no specific mention of any element of that nights events, and I thought perhaps there could be one, but its a stretch.

If you recall our recent exchange where I mistakenly stated Kate had given her name as "nobody" when being shown to her cell and you correctly stated that it was actually "nothing" that she had said? What if.....someone who knew she had given that as her name in Bishopsgate earlier that night, (but perhaps not the later alias of Mary Kelly), took the cloth to Goulston after Kates murder to incriminate Jews for Kates murder....."The Jewes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing".

I realize if that were the case a literate person would capitalize the word indicating proper name usage, but I believe there was inconsistency in the message with respect to capital usage as it is. Maybe the fact that it appeared as "nothing" versus "Nothing" is just another small error.

I would think one main objection to that idea is that a person who could have overheard Kate say "nothing", and could have access to the body and Kates apron, and could have taken the cloth to Goulston that night without fear of being caught with it on them, would almost have to have been a policeman.

We do have a cop who was at the murder site and then was at Goulston, I wonder, did he operate out of Bishopsgate, and if so, could he have been in the station when Kate was brought in...just out of curiosity?

Cheers Monty

[Bridewell]

I would think one main objection to that idea is that a person who could have overheard Kate say "nothing", and could have access to the body and Kates apron, and could have taken the cloth to Goulston that night without fear of being caught with it on them, would almost have to have been a policeman.

We do have a cop who was at the murder site and then was at Goulston, I wonder, did he operate out of Bishopsgate, and if so, could he have been in the station when Kate was brought in...just out of curiosity?

And his motive for that would be?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Monty]

Hi again,

4.5 feet on me is roughly at my throat level Monty, so if I wanted to write on a wall at that height I would still likely need to crouch....Id use my focus eye line as the level to be maintained as I wrote. A neat schoolboy hand, to me, suggests that the letters were approximately the same size and were, as much as could be expected, written horizontally.

Ive been ruminating over this idea today, regarding what you said about no specific mention of any element of that nights events, and I thought perhaps there could be one, but its a stretch.

If you recall our recent exchange where I mistakenly stated Kate had given her name as "nobody" when being shown to her cell and you correctly stated that it was actually "nothing" that she had said? What if.....someone who knew she had given that as her name in Bishopsgate earlier that night, (but perhaps not the later alias of Mary Kelly), took the cloth to Goulston after Kates murder to incriminate Jews for Kates murder....."The Jewes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing".

I realize if that were the case a literate person would capitalize the word indicating proper name usage, but I believe there was inconsistency in the message with respect to capital usage as it is. Maybe the fact that it appeared as "nothing" versus "Nothing" is just another small error.

I would think one main objection to that idea is that a person who could have overheard Kate say "nothing", and could have access to the body and Kates apron, and could have taken the cloth to Goulston that night without fear of being caught with it on them, would almost have to have been a policeman.

We do have a cop who was at the murder site and then was at Goulston, I wonder, did he operate out of Bishopsgate, and if so, could he have been in the station when Kate was brought in...just out of curiosity?

Cheers Monty

Have you been talking to Phil Carter Michael?

The suggestion 'nothing' is reference to Eddowes is something touched upon some years back. And yes, if that's the suggestion then only someone at Bishopsgate could have known, unless she told another of that.

Due to its location as the most easterly of the City police stations, all the City PCs who were involved at the scene and subsequent investigations operated out of that station. Eddowes was held at time of changeover so its possible they were aware of this woman in the cells known as 'Nothing'. Byfield and Hutt would certainly have known however as they were on station duty its highly unlikely they would have left the station at any stage.

As for the height of the writing, its all perspective isn't it? I wouldn't have to crouch. Swanson stated shoulder height. I've seen the spot and know the black base bricks start at the level Swanson states. Teachers write on boards and shoulder height (the ones I've seen) and so do I....and never crouched.

Monty

[Phil Carter]

Hello Monty,

No. Mike hasn't been talking to me. Nor emailing. Nor pm'ing. Nor msn'ing. Nothing. Zilch. Nada.

Thats like me saying you have been quoting from Vanessa Hayes.

In other words, your suggestion is wrong.

Best wishes

Phil

[Michael W Richards]

Hi again,

Just so its clear I didnt speak with Phil on this Monty, although I have read some of his posted suggestions regarding the possible policeman who could have accomplished something like this. You likely also have the answer to this question....the policeman in question...do you know what time would he have checked into the station for his shift that night?

If its around 8ish, there could be something to this perhaps.

The answer to your question Bridewell, from my perspective, is that many police were not all that thrilled with the local Jewish population, for one, because within it were the socialists who took over Trafalgar Square the year before and were part of the violence on police during that Bloody Sunday. You also have many local people, including policeman, almost certain that the killer was from that population, confirmed I believe by Anderson's remarks. Socialists were behind strikes, marches, and protests...all of which would be policed.

Have police ever planted evidence when they felt they knew a criminal might escape justice without that damning evidence? Well I would imagine the answer is yes. Perhaps thats why the cloth was left at the almost exclusively Jewish Model Homes project. They didnt have an individual person in mind to blame, just an ethnic group in general.

That would make the grafitto sensible.

All the best

[Lechmere]

Monty,
I forgot to add that Wentworth Model Dwellings were brand spanking new buildings - less than two years old. I doubt that they were graffiti covered and new graffiti would have stood out.
Also Swanson had been appointed as Warren's eyes and ears. Who rubbed the message off? Warren! Swanson had a motive in implying that the message had been there for a longer period.
Halse was City police - the force that wanted the message photographed.

[Bridewell]

Halse?

The answer to your question Bridewell, from my perspective, is that many police were not all that thrilled with the local Jewish population, for one, because within it were the socialists who took over Trafalgar Square the year before and were part of the violence on police during that Bloody Sunday. You also have many local people, including policeman, almost certain that the killer was from that population, confirmed I believe by Anderson's remarks. Socialists were behind strikes, marches, and protests...all of which would be policed.

Have police ever planted evidence when they felt they knew a criminal might escape justice without that damning evidence? Well I would imagine the answer is yes. Perhaps thats why the cloth was left at the almost exclusively Jewish Model Homes project. They didnt have an individual person in mind to blame, just an ethnic group in general.

That would make the grafitto sensible.

Hi Michael,

I take it you think Dc Halse is the officer concerned? Halse was most vociferous in wanting the GSG preserved so that the handwriting and content could be photographed. When he realised he was fighting a losing battle, he suggested that only the top line, including 'Juwes' should be erased. That doesn't, to my mind, seem a logical mind-set for a man who wrote the GSG himself and might be identified as the author if the writing was preserved.

I think the GSG was either written by the killer or it had no relevance at all.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Abby Normal]

Just two quick points. firstly most witnesses have the suspect as shorter than normal and normal back then was short for us now anyway. So even a writing at four and half feet seems like a normal height anyway.

Secondly, re handwriting. if Bury could write a letter like his confession to the priest than I imagine that penmanship was much better then than it was now and even a sophisticated letter like the dear boss could have been written from someone from the working class.

[Monty]

Hello Monty,

No. Mike hasn't been talking to me. Nor emailing. Nor pm'ing. Nor msn'ing. Nothing. Zilch. Nada.

Thats like me saying you have been quoting from Vanessa Hayes.

In other words, your suggestion is wrong.

Best wishes

Phil

Phil,

My words were tongue in cheek.

Relax

Monty

[Monty]

Hi again,

Just so its clear I didnt speak with Phil on this Monty, although I have read some of his posted suggestions regarding the possible policeman who could have accomplished something like this. You likely also have the answer to this question....the policeman in question...do you know what time would he have checked into the station for his shift that night?

If its around 8ish, there could be something to this perhaps.

The answer to your question Bridewell, from my perspective, is that many police were not all that thrilled with the local Jewish population, for one, because within it were the socialists who took over Trafalgar Square the year before and were part of the violence on police during that Bloody Sunday. You also have many local people, including policeman, almost certain that the killer was from that population, confirmed I believe by Anderson's remarks. Socialists were behind strikes, marches, and protests...all of which would be policed.

Have police ever planted evidence when they felt they knew a criminal might escape justice without that damning evidence? Well I would imagine the answer is yes. Perhaps thats why the cloth was left at the almost exclusively Jewish Model Homes project. They didnt have an individual person in mind to blame, just an ethnic group in general.

That would make the grafitto sensible.

All the best

Micheal,

As I've said to Phil, I was joshing. Doesn't matter to me who you speak to.

Working from memory, the evening City Police beats were marched out from Bishopsgate at around 9.45pm. That's when the changeover happened.

Monty