'the biggest blunder in the search for Jack the Ripper'

[Archaic]

You know, I don't think the killer took the apron for any other purpose but to leave it where he did. He could have taken a sleeve, a piece of petticoat, anything, but he cut away a good half of an apron. I think it was a reference to Leather Apron, a joke.
Mike

Hi Mike, I agree with you.

The apron could also have been used by the killer as a sort of double entendre, a play on 'Leather Apron'... which also ties in with the Jewish reference in the graffito and the murder in Dutfield's Yard.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

Just a thought -- could have been snatched up by a cat or a dog.

But so could the apron....WHAT?...oh...hell...yes, I see...erm I take that back!

Dave

[Bridewell]

Hi Bridewell. When you make a cut to someone, the knife is moving faster than the blood, so no blood will get on the blade. Same is true for stabbing if you remove the blade quick enough.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi, Tom,

Carotid artery - major blood vessel. The knife interrupts the blood-flow, which has to come into contact with the blade, doesn't it? I'm not saying you're wrong, just that this is not a view I've encountered before.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Bride. The knife is slicing as it travels through. The blood can't come out until the opening is made, and the opening isn't made until the knife has moved on. Now, of course, I'm talking about quick, single slices, such as that made on Stride. If you're sawing at the neck, you'll get covered in blood.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Archaic]

Hi Bride. The knife is slicing as it travels through. The blood can't come out until the opening is made, and the opening isn't made until the knife has moved on. Now, of course, I'm talking about quick, single slices, such as that made on Stride. If you're sawing at the neck, you'll get covered in blood.

Hey Tom... you're kind of talking like you've tried it.



Archaic

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Archaic. No, I just research and apply a little common sense. And I've seen videos. Hold your hand up and slice it across the air. You'll see how fast it moves. With a sharp knife it would only move a tiny bit slower than that. You can see how far your hand is now away from the imaginary neck before the blood would even have a chance to start coming out.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Archaic]

Sure Tom, sure...Whatever you say...Sure, I believe you, old pal!...

Your friend,
Sleepless In Seattle

[Hunter]

Dr. Brown described the apron piece being covered with blood and fecal matter and that it looked like it had been wiped with hands or a knife.

What the killer probably didn't count on was cutting into the large intestines and having that stuff start coming out all over the place. He made another cut two feet up and discarded the section so it wouldn't be leaking down where he was attempting to extract the uterus. To keep the remaining portion of the colon attached to the rectum from also leaking he tucked that part into the rectum.
From Brown's written testimony:

“...the sigmoid flexure was invaginated into the rectum very tightly.”

His hands, knife and the uterus extracted were probably covered in excrement. Dealing with blood is one thing, but dealing with this is quite another and not easy to just wipe away quickly. Someone may have been approaching by that point. He cuts the apron, wipes the knife and puts it back in its scabbard or wherever he conceals it, bundles the goods in it and gets the hell out of there.

He's got a mess but right now escape is his priority and getting to a safe distance. By the time he reaches the Wentworth apartments he finally feels safe enough to stop, enter the enclave there and remove the organs, wipe them off, wipe his hands off and place the organs in his pocket or whatever he may have brought along to contain them. He no longer needs this incriminating evidence so he discards it right there and moves on. (writing the chalk message is optional).

The point is that this killer did have fecal matter to deal with. Mr. Brown even noticed it on the intestines thrown over the victim's shoulder. There was fecal matter on the apron. Anyone who has field dressed an animal and has inadvertently cut into the intestines knows exactly what happens when this occurs.

[Scott Nelson]

34 pages of this nonsense and counting. There was no blunder in the search. Everyone did what they could under the circumstances.

[Trevor Marriott]

Dr. Brown described the apron piece being covered with blood and fecal matter and that it looked like it had been wiped with hands or a knife.

You are wrong Dr Brownnever said it was covered in blood. I have set out below the various descriptions of the apron piece as given by those invloved with it. Note they all differ so you pays you money and you takes your choice depending on what scenario you want to beleive.

PC Long official statement –“I found a piece of apron covered in blood”

P.C. Long reported ' ....about 2.55am I found a portion of a womans apron which I produced, there appeared blood stains on it one portion was wet “

Pc Long – “one corner of which was wet with blood”.

Dr Brown – “I fitted that portion which was spotted with blood to the remaining portion, The blood spots were of recent origin”

Dr Brown - Some blood and apparently faecal matter was found on the portion found in Goulston Street"

Dr. Brown -"On the piece of apron brought on there were smears of blood on one side as if a hand or knife had been wiped on it”

Stain = A spot, mark, or discoloration

What the killer probably didn't count on was cutting into the large intestines and having that stuff start coming out all over the place. He made another cut two feet up and discarded the section so it wouldn't be leaking down where he was attempting to extract the uterus. To keep the remaining portion of the colon attached to the rectum from also leaking he tucked that part into the rectum.
From Brown's written testimony:

“...the sigmoid flexure was invaginated into the rectum very tightly.”

His hands, knife and the uterus extracted were probably covered in excrement. Dealing with blood is one thing, but dealing with this is quite another and not easy to just wipe away quickly. Someone may have been approaching by that point. He cuts the apron, wipes the knife and puts it back in its scabbard or wherever he conceals it, bundles the goods in it and gets the hell out of there.

And all of this in a total of five minutes in the dark, wow a feat of surgical dexterity

He's got a mess but right now escape is his priority and getting to a safe distance. By the time he reaches the Wentworth apartments he finally feels safe enough to stop, enter the enclave there and remove the organs, wipe them off, wipe his hands off and place the organs in his pocket or whatever he may have brought along to contain them. He no longer needs this incriminating evidence so he discards it right there and moves on. (writing the chalk message is optional).

If he takes them away in the apron piece which has been proved he didnt then why would he transfer them when he has them already wrapped

None of those scenarios you describe are consistent with any of the above statements and medical tests have proved this to be the case

The point is that this killer did have fecal matter to deal with. Mr. Brown even noticed it on the intestines thrown over the victim's shoulder. There was fecal matter on the apron. Anyone who has field dressed an animal and has inadvertently cut into the intestines knows exactly what happens when this occurs.

The amount of fecal matter in the bowel and passing through intestines is determined by the amount of food consumed. It is unlikley that Eddowes had eaten all of that day and probaly not much the day before.

[Monty]

The amount of fecal matter in the bowel and passing through intestines is determined by the amount of food consumed. It is unlikley that Eddowes had eaten all of that day and probaly not much the day before.

Wanna cite your evidence for that Trevor?

Bearing in mind she had enough money to end up drunk against a shop front.

Monty

[Jon Guy]

Hi Trevor

. It is unlikley that Eddowes had eaten all of that day and probaly not much the day before.

Didn`t John Kelly and Eddowes enjoy a hearty breakfast with a mug of tea that Sat morning?

[Trevor Marriott]

Wanna cite your evidence for that Trevor?

Bearing in mind she had enough money to end up drunk against a shop front.

Monty

Nit picking again are you I said it is unlikley. She would not have been fed following her arrest due to her being drunk so thats 8 hours without food.

Alcholholics prefer drink to food

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor



Didn`t John Kelly and Eddowes enjoy a hearty breakfast with a mug of tea that Sat morning?

I doubt that amounted to sausage egg bacon chips fried bread and hash browns.

[Jon Guy]

I doubt that amounted to sausage egg bacon chips fried bread and hash browns.

Don`t be silly, Trevor. Hash browns hadn`t yet come across the pond. According to the Star, Kelly and Eddowes enjoyed McMuffins and croissants, washed down with lashings of cappucino.