'the biggest blunder in the search for Jack the Ripper'

[Tom_Wescott]

Absolutely.
Still, wondering if the blood from the carotid springs out away from the knife.

I think I would have better luck explaining this stuff to a group of first graders...though i'd likely end up in jail for that!

The knife is moving...the neck is stationary...by the time the blood is reacting to the fresh opening in the artery, the knife has moved well out of the way. So yes, the blood has absolutely no choice but to spurt in a different direction that from where the knife is at that moment.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Trevor Marriott]

Eddowes was deemed sober enough to be released.

Hutt engaged her is conversation and his testimony indicates she was aware of the situation, her presonses were lucid.

And yes Trevor, nit picking. As opposed to making unfounded sweeping statements.

Monty

Statement of what was probable fact.

I can rattle my sabre just as much as you can yours

[Monty]

Statement of what was probable fact.

I can rattle my sabre just as much as you can yours

Statement of probable fact. Ah, the West Midland Police approach huh?

Yes, you rattle.

Monty

[mariab]

The knife is moving...the neck is stationary...by the time the blood is reacting to the fresh opening in the artery, the knife has moved well out of the way. So yes, the blood has absolutely no choice but to spurt in a different direction that from where the knife is at that moment.

Well, duh.

There used to be many, many videos online of foreign terrorists or what not cutting throats. We're talking a lot of years ago.

Only one I've seen (with that journalist Reed/Reid?), I've only seen the short (censored) vid shown in the news.

But FYI, the best special effects men create their effects from hard research. If you want many of Tom Savini's throat slashes from his earlier slasher films, you are more or less seeing what a real throat cutting looks like.

You're the expert on horror movies. As for Savini, I haven't even seen Friday the 13, though I've seen some stuff he's done with Dario Argento. Which I hardly recall, since I was a kid.

[Trevor Marriott]

Statement of probable fact. Ah, the West Midland Police approach huh?

Yes, you rattle.

Monty

happy days !

[Tom_Wescott]

Ironically, wasn't a restaurant named 'Happy Days' opened next to 108 Goulston?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Monty]

Happy Days resturant incorporates thw dwelling stair entrance now Tom.

Monty...who is waiting to see Fonz Marriott jump over that pool of sharks on a push bike.

[PhiltheBear]

The knife is moving...the neck is stationary...by the time the blood is reacting to the fresh opening in the artery, the knife has moved well out of the way. So yes, the blood has absolutely no choice but to spurt in a different direction that from where the knife is at that moment.

If the blood is under a pump pressure at the instant the knife severs the first part of the artery wall it will make the knife bloody. The pressure is high. The release of pressure would be by the sharp edge of the knife, not the rest of the blade. It would spurt in the direction of the least pressure - in this case in the direction towards the blade of the knife that had not yet passed through the artery.

To give you some idea of what we are talking about I've seen a standing man bleeding from a temple cut which is fed by the carotid - the blood spurted about 3 feet and that's not carotid volume or pressure. Nor was he lying down (which increases blood pressure).

[mariab]

I've been there couple weeks ago, but the complete experience would be to eat at that restaurant, then drop a bloody object on my way out.
Or maybe, the complete experience would be to drop a bloody object by the bank on Mitre Square, then have my rat pet carry said object to the Happy days restaurant.

[mariab]

If the blood is under a pump pressure at the instant the knife severs the first part of the artery wall it will make the knife bloody. The pressure is high. The release of pressure would be by the sharp edge of the knife, not the rest of the blade. It would spurt in the direction of the least pressure - in this case in the direction towards the blade of the knife that had not yet passed through the artery.

Stride was cut from behind with her face towards the Yard pebbles. In that case, I expect gravity to have taken its course. And by the by, there was NO blood whatsoever found on the wall next to the body.

[Hunter]

If he takes them away in the apron piece which has been proved he didnt then why would he transfer them when he has them already wrapped

Because the apron piece was big and bulky and not easily concealed. It was also stained with excrement. It was used as a stopgap measure until he could get to a safe spot and get better organized; wipe his hands and the organs and then transfer them to a smaller place for concealment. The apron piece had served its emergency purpose so he discarded it. Better for someone to find it there later than to get caught with it later.

If this was the same person who killed the others, this was probably the first time he had gotten into this big of a mess.

And it hasn't been proved by anybody that he didn't take the organs. As I've said before I'm more than willing to debate you on that subject on these or the other boards any time you wish... and you can bring all of the 'experts' you want. All I need is the evidence.

[Tom_Wescott]

I have to agree with Trevor here. It seems what Hunter is suggesting - and please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you - is that the killer spent his valuable time cutting off this bulky apron piece (when many more suitable rags were literally lying at his finger tips) in order to wrap these tiny organs so that he could carry them as far as the middle of Goulston Street, where he lingers more and transfers the organs to another container and tosses the apron. Why didn't he just use this more suitable container while in Goulston Street? Or one of the smaller rags?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Hunter]

I'd be interested to hear what Hunter would say to this, since he's got some experience with, well, venison.

Hi Maria,

When I cut on animals they are already dead. The circulatory system is no longer functioning. However, I do bow hunt, which requires a well placed shot in the heart-lung area of the deer with very sharp broadheads. Of course, an arrow travels much quicker than a hand with a knife, but there is never any blood on the broadhead when the arrow is recovered (which is the first thing you do in order to tell if it was a good hit). There is blood on the shaft and fletching if a good clean pass-through was made.

I doubt Elizabeth Stride's killer got much - if any - blood on his hand or knife. I think Tom has a valid point. The cut was swift and clean. If he had stabbed her in the throat (which is what usually happened in other murders of this type) and dragged the knife across using the point, it might be a different story. Whoever killed Stride and Eddowes knew exactly how to kill with a knife effectively - down to even following the edge of the neckerchief instead of haphazardly cutting through it and causing an impediment.

He also didn't just cut across the front of the throat, which might only sever the windpipe. He reached around under the left ear to make sure the carotid artery was cut in both cases. And this was not by accident but by design.

[Hunter]

I have to agree with Trevor here. It seems what Hunter is suggesting - and please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you - is that the killer spent his valuable time cutting off this bulky apron piece (when many more suitable rags were literally lying at his finger tips) in order to wrap these tiny organs so that he could carry them as far as the middle of Goulston Street, where he lingers more and transfers the organs to another container and tosses the apron. Why didn't he just use this more suitable container while in Goulston Street? Or one of the smaller rags?

It would take no more time to whack off a piece of the apron than it would to scrounge around for some rags that were likely in her pockets anyway. He had probably aready cut the apron up the middle when he ripped through her clothes. He only had to cut the string.

In a fast moving situation like this, the apron (which was readily visible and on the outside of her garments) would have been the easiest thing to get at quickly. He had already cut the strings to her pockets and there is no telling where they ended up.

[mariab]

Hi Maria,
When I cut on animals they are already dead. The circulatory system is no longer functioning.

I simply wondered if you had any experience with finishing off a deer or something. And for the record, I would NEVER hurt an animal – unless lost in the woods and starving. I didn't even (seriously) hurt my cat when he got bonkers and attacked me a few times.

I doubt Elizabeth Stride's killer got much - if any - blood on his hand or knife. I think Tom has a valid point. The cut was swift and clean. If he had stabbed her in the throat (which is what usually happened in other murders of this type) and dragged the knife across using the point, it might be a different story. Whoever killed Stride and Eddowes knew exactly how to kill with a knife effectively - down to even following the edge of the neckerchief instead of haphazardly cutting through it and causing an impediment.
He also didn't just cut across the front of the throat, which might only sever the windpipe. He reached around under the left ear to make sure the carotid artery was cut in both cases. And this was not by accident but by design.

I hear what you're saying. And I was thinking, if the perp who did the C5 also did Tabram, it's a possibility that he did a few animals in between and "honed his skills", so to say.