'the biggest blunder in the search for Jack the Ripper'

[ChrisGeorge]

All these say the same thing - but they all say it differently.

The inquest record quite clearly says "I got assistance". Doesn't say what assistance. So, do I trust the reporting? - not a bit.

Again, that's up to you, Phil. But Dave Yost, Alex Chisholm, and Christopher-Michael DiGrazia published their excellent book News from Whitechapel some years ago and they used the articles from the Daily Telegraph as the basis of their book because of its acknowledged reliability.

The Telegraph is just one of a number of newspapers that reports that Eddowes replied "Nothing" to Robinson's question, and it appears that you yourself are now acknowledging that the police constable both wrote that she replied "Nothing" to him and that he said the same thing in court, as reported by those newspapers. Yes the wording of the events as described by the several newspapers is a bit different but that reply is reported the same way. I'll also acknowledge that The Times did not report that reply by Eddowes but that does not mean she didn't say it.

Best regards

Chris

[Beowulf]

Hi Bridewell

I agree that if the graffito had been photographed it would not have made a difference. We would still be left with the same enigmatic piece of writing, not knowing if it was left by the killer, although admittedly the police at the time seemed to think it was written by him. The thought of trying to match the handwriting on the wall to the "Jack the Ripper" letters though is absurd, even if there are those who think such strategy could have been fruitful. I concur that the failure to photograph the inscription or even to ensure that the words were transcribed properly was sloppy work on the part of the police.

Best regards

Chris

Well, at least they could've compared it to the handwritings of all the suspects they had, and also we could compare it to the handwritings of all the suspects we've had down the years, Prince Edward, Kosminski, Chapman, Cutbush, you know everyone. Heck, Van Gogh, Lautrec, Sickert. Could rule out quite a few if we had that writing to compare it to, maybe.

[Cogidubnus]

Well, at least they could've compared it to the handwritings of all the suspects they had, and also we could compare it to the handwritings of all the suspects we've had down the years, Prince Edward, Kosminski, Chapman, Cutbush, you know everyone. Heck, Van Gogh, Lautrec, Sickert. Could rule out quite a few if we had that writing to compare it to, maybe.

Hi Barbara

To be honest I don't suppose a sample of chalk graffiti written on a vertical brick surface (in the dark or nay) would actually form any valid basis for comparison for a penned message in ink, written flat on a piece of paper...

I suspect that all but the most major characteristics would appear differently...I recall right down the years that my teachers writing on blackboards looked very different from their comments in my exercise books...and that wasn't just the red ink!

All the best

Dave

[Beowulf]

Hi Barbara

To be honest I don't suppose a sample of chalk graffiti written on a vertical brick surface (in the dark or nay) would actually form any valid basis for comparison for a penned message in ink, written flat on a piece of paper...

I suspect that all but the most major characteristics would appear differently...I recall right down the years that my teachers writing on blackboards looked very different from their comments in my exercise books...and that wasn't just the red ink!

All the best

Dave

Well, there blows another theory of mine, lol.

[Cogidubnus]

Funny... I thought that the whole point of Casebook was that at this stage we were supposed to huff and puff and get heated with each other...

I must be missing something!

All the best Barbara

Dave

[Tom_Wescott]

For what it's worth...

According to the Star, witnesses to the graffiti said that it resembled the Dear Boss letter/Saucy Jacky postcard. According the police reports, no one thought it resembled the letters.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Hunter]

The Times had a habit of mixing direct quotes with third person summaries (the witness stated that...). The first part of Robinson's testimony is presented in summary form by the Times. They did the same thing with Kelly's testimony, leaving out his reference to 'Cooney's', which was repeated verbatim in the Daily Telegraph.

[Beowulf]

Funny... I thought that the whole point of Casebook was that at this stage we were supposed to huff and puff and get heated with each other...

I must be missing something!

All the best Barbara

Dave

Quite right! I should've posted this first:



and then said "Well, there blows another theory of mine, lol."

[Archaic]

Old Front of Wentworth Dwellings

Hi Phil,

The recesses were at the front, for the basement, and were surrounded by a fence.

If you look at the dwellings today, these have been filled in, with patterned tiles.

In 1888, and it seems up to early 1970s, you couldn't walk flush up against the dweliing frontage.

So, with a casual throw away in mind, why not dispose into the recess instead?

Monty

Hi everyone.

This photo might help; it shows the recesses in front of the Wentworth Dwellings surrounded by iron fences designed to protect passersby from tumbling in. If I remember correctly the recesses were about 8 feet deep. They were intended to let a bit of light down to the lower level.

Note that in this photo there's a lamp-post right in front of the doorway...Was it there in 1888?

Best regards,
Archaic

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi everyone.

This photo might help; it shows the recesses in front of the Wentworth Dwellings surrounded by iron fences designed to protect passersby from tumbling in. If I remember correctly the recesses were about 8 feet deep. They were intended to let a bit of light down to the lower level.

Note that in this photo there's a lamp-post right in front of the doorway...Was it there in 1888?

Best regards,
Archaic

Hi Archaic

That's a modern electric lamp post so the same lamp post could not have been there in 1888. The arrangement in 1888 would have been vastly different with gas lights sporadically found along the street. Maybe Monty has the answer.

All the best

Chris

[Archaic]

Street-Lamp

Hi Chris.

Sorry, I should have worded my question better. I know that the lamp in the photo is an electric one, but was asking if there might have been one in the same location (or close by) in 1888.

I'm guessing that then as now lamps were placed near street-corners, and the entrance to the dwellings is quite close to a corner. And being a newer building in 1888, I thought it might have all the mod cons, such as street-lighting.

OK, where's Rob & Monty?? I may be the equestrian, but they're the cavalry.

Best regards,
Archaic

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Archaic

Yes of course I realise you know it couldn't be the same lamp that was there in 1888 -- but what I am saying is that I doubt that a modern lamp would have replaced an old one. I think there would have been an entirely different arrangement in 1888. Different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes.

All the best

Chris

[moonbegger]

Evening All

It should also be noted , that this is not actually the GSG doorway .. 108-19

cheers
moonbegger

[ChrisGeorge]

Evening All

It should also be noted , that this is not actually the GSG doorway .. 108-19

cheers
moonbegger

That's correct. The doorway is not at the end of the street like that.

Chris

[Monty]

Hi everyone.

This photo might help; it shows the recesses in front of the Wentworth Dwellings surrounded by iron fences designed to protect passersby from tumbling in. If I remember correctly the recesses were about 8 feet deep. They were intended to let a bit of light down to the lower level.

Note that in this photo there's a lamp-post right in front of the doorway...Was it there in 1888?

Best regards,
Archaic

Hi Bunny, Chris, Moonbegger,

Yes, that is John Bennetts photo which he posted a while back showing the recessess. I put it up myself a few months ago.

When Rob and I visited the rear of Gouldston Street back in 2007 we noted window lentals around ankle height. We couldnt figure this out and assumed them to be Cellar lights. However their configuration looked odd.

Also, when I was compiling my Mitre Square article in the Rip (again around 2006/7), Jake noted the wall towards the Goulston Street baths and questioned it, why a wall that seemingly just jutted out for no reason. Well now we do know.

Johns photos ofthe front and the rear (the rear I attach) then appeared and they show recessess. The photos was taken in the 1970s Chris and whilst the street lamping is modern, the fronatge is original in terms of configuration.

Now I am aware that the dwellings had a makeover in the 1920s and recesses were filled in including the entrance we know and love. And whilst the photo is of the wrong entrance, I attach a Goads map to show the recesses ran in full, they are highlighted in green.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Monty