Height of GSG a Clue?

[Sam Flynn]

On the proximity to the apron, in the inquest he says the writing was "above" the section

..."above it on the wall", actually, which isn't quite the same - certainly not as explicit - as "above the section". It might just have indicated that the writing wasn't on the opposite wall.

It's important to recall that there's more than just Long's testimony to bear in mind. Firstly, there's Warren's statement that "the writing was on the jamb... visible to anybody in the street", and secondly Halse's "I would not necessarily have seen [the apron], for it was in the building".

The only way these three witness accounts can be reconciled is if the writing were close to the very front of the entranceway, with the apron recessed a little way inside the passage. Something like the "Scenario B" I posted earlier.

[diana]

I claim no expertise relating to uploading graphics. Can't help there.

I got to thinking that the placement of the graffito on the inside facing rather than the front facing would be more consistent with the statement that the residents shoulders could have rubbed it off.

[Wickerman]

Thankyou Diana.
Yes, I tried placing my cursor between a line prior to uploading a picture thinking it would drop in at the point of the cursor - nope!

When I preview the post to see if the pic has uploaded there is no 'attachment' text to show where the pic is to insert itself.

Another puzzle is, why is my pic enveloped in a frame when yours is not?


Anyway, back to the thread..., Yes Diana, there is a reference that the GSG was "on the right-side of the door jam", but I cannot find it!
Sugden also states it was on the right side, but he doesn't give a reference either.
A reference does exist, it's not our imagination, and it wasn't from PC Long, it was by either Arnold, Warren, or some other official, I don't think it was Halse either.
I'll find it someday, - Stewart will know, he probably like's to see us stew a little :-)

Hello all,

Quick note...it was mentioned, my apologies for forgetting by whom, that there wasnt much time between the apron being taken and then dropped....just wanted to remind our viewers that on record, it is not seen until almost 3am. Whether it was there all that time is about as clear as whether Jack also wrote the graffiti.

On the images posted by Diana and Wickerman, ....if we really want to know what side it was on, we need to know which side Long approached from. If he was going North on Goulston, on the east side of it, then Wickerman is probably right on the location...and I believe he was. Is anyone sure of where he was when he would have seen this.....for example, if he was heading South on Goulston, on the East Side again, Wickermans suggested location would be hard to miss. His POV might also explain why the writing might not have grabbed his attention had it not been for the apron section. On the proximity to the apron, in the inquest he says the writing was "above" the section, leading one to surmise that he saw some association by that juxtapositioning.

Cheers all.

[diana]

Hi Wickerman,

To type under the pic I just clicked to place my cursor down there and let rip.

I was guessing with my placement and didn't consult source material so its very likely your version is better.

Do you have documentation for using the other side of the doorjamb and the side facing rather than the outer facing?

Sam, without your help and advice we wouldn't even be trying this, thanks again.

[Wickerman]

.....
I'll bet I got it wrong in some respects. Anxious to see other versions and critiques.

Here's where I visualize the GSG being, from official statements.

Forget the 72" dimension, this pic was used for something else.
(P.S. how do we get text under a picture?)

[diana]

Thanks

Thanks Sam I'll try again.



Yaay! I really think a picture will enable us to be sure we're all talking about the same thing.

I'll bet I got it wrong in some respects. Anxious to see other versions and critiques.

[Blues]

With the influx of Jewish immigrants into the area and the presence of "Jewish radicals" - anyone could have written the graffiti. All letters ,including the Lusk, letter seem to be in a sloppy hand (imo). I've always taken the text of the graffito to mean that the "Jews" won't be blamed for the ills of the world. With the "tension" in the area, this seems to be appropro of many Jewish men's feeling. Without the photograph, nothing can be compared...unfortunately. But I am also of the thought that if we are getting into "spelling errors" - e.g. "Juwes" - Jack the Ripper should be thought of as Jack the Reaper. Again, someone with language/dialect experience may be able to hunt down the land of origination clues imbedded in "Juwes", "Ripper" and the many Irish (?) sounding clues in the letters. One thing I have a question about - was there actually other chalk writing by the body of C.E. and/or other victims? I have read that there was but in other seemingly well researched dissertations, there's no mention of it. I'm referring to the possible chalk writing with the gist of "I'll stop when I've killed 10 more..." I don't have the time at the moment to look back...Little help on its existence? (First post here...always been fascinated by the case but never delved into the details. It all breaks my heart. Especially M.K. I think we've all known a M.K.)

[Sam Flynn]

I clicked on the picture icon and when it asked for the URL ...

The "picture" icon is when you want to link to an image held on a web server. You want the "paper-clip" icon, Di - as indicated by the blue arrow below:



...clicking on that will pop up the "upload" dialogue box, from where you can browse to your image file and upload it.

[diana]

Attempted Reproduction

I am not good at posting graphics here. Nevertheless, I downloaded the picture of the Goulston Street doorway, put it in Paintbrush, clicked on the text function (an icon that looks like the letter A), placed a transparent text box on what I thought would be the appropriate location, changed the text color to white and typed the GSG.

I have said all that because I doubt my ability to upload the result and if I can't do it maybe somebody more tech savvy than me will be able to do it.

. . . about 17 minutes later no go. Maybe somebody else would like to try it?

I clicked on the picture icon and when it asked for the URL the only thing I could do was give the C:\ etc. etc. address on my computer. I checked the preview but all there was was the address, no pic. I also tried copy/paste but that didn't work either.

[Scott Nelson]

(1) The intended audience was only the one who wrote it (an exercise in self expression).
(2) He was a resident of the building
(3) The short time period between cutting the piece of apron and depositing it in the entrance to the building indicates that the apron piece did not change many hands. There also wasn't enough time for a dog to get involved.
(not numbered) There probably was other graffitti around as well.

[Johnr]

Establishing the chain of possession.

Greetings All,

I know nothing of philospohy nor logic.
But a couple of things are patent to my mind (concerning the height of the GS Graffiti, and the height of the writer).
Come to think of it, there are three things:
(1)For graffitti to be effective it must be read by its intended audience ( or readership);
(2)Surely, another option for the height of the writer -if JTR used Occam's Razor -is for him to have been one of the denizens on that Invisible World, of cripples and midgets, and beggars and demented persons? Most of whom had been malnourished in this concrete jungle.And possibly, had not grown to average height as the result?
(3) How do my fellow posters know that the apron was brought to this Model Dwelling Building by the murderer theirself? Has the chain of unbroken possession been established beyond reasonable doubt?
On an old board, it was even suggested a foraging dog might have dropped it.
So, all is not so cut and dried.
Finally, why was there no linking graffitti at the other Jewish neighbouring JTR murder sites?
JOHN RUFFELS.

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks Sam,
but if in the same sketches, you write the text at shoulders' height, the apron wouldn't be so close, neither in A, nor B?

True, David - although apron "B" is at a disadvantage, since it is located at the vertex of a hypotenuse. Had I not created a right-angled triangle by exaggeratedly putting "A" perpendicular to the graffito, the difference would be less noticeable. Bloody Pythagoras!

[DVV]

Thanks Sam,
but if in the same sketches, you write the text at shoulders' height, the apron wouldn't be so close, neither in A, nor B?

[Sam Flynn]

hasn't this thread put the graffito closer to the piece of apron?

Possibly along the vertical dimension, David - or the "Y" axis, as I suggested yesterday. Horizontally, on the "X" axis, the two artefacts could have been offset by a few feet from one another, and still satisfy the criterion of the writing being "on the wall above" the apron. This crude "bird's-eye view", by no means to scale, should give you an idea of what I mean: