Height of GSG a Clue?

Sammy,Mike,Good Mike,all...

Lets remember that the available space on where the author wrote the G began at 48 inches or less. If the author was 6 feet tall ,he'd have to lean or lurch forward and write at chest height. If the author was 5 feet tall, he'd still begin at chest height,but without much,if any leaning into the wall....and the message would have had virtually the same point of origin despite the 12 inch disparity between the 6 footer and the 5 footer.... I just tried this with my wife who is 5'1".

Hi there Howard,

If it started at 48" and decended, and was in 5 separate lines as reported, then its interesting enough in that alone to wonder why someone would choose such a silly spot for a single line or two of message. Forced to break it into 5 lines due to the available width.

I think that if he wrote it, he was kneeling or crouching in such a way as to rise quickly if need be,....and if he was in that position, I lean towards him placing the apron section rather than just dropping it...and that act would be treating the cloth as semi-sacred, which one that carried organs might be to him.

All the best Howard.

[Howard Brown]

Sammy,Mike,Good Mike,all...

Lets remember that the available space on where the author wrote the G began at 48 inches or less. If the author was 6 feet tall ,he'd have to lean or lurch forward and write at chest height. If the author was 5 feet tall, he'd still begin at chest height,but without much,if any leaning into the wall....and the message would have had virtually the same point of origin despite the 12 inch disparity between the 6 footer and the 5 footer.... I just tried this with my wife who is 5'1".

...um, they didn't actually, Mike. The results showed a small majority who wrote at neck-height or above - although the effect was not statistically significant.

Hi Sam,

Its not that I am unfamiliar with having virtually every post I offer shot down by you, but it seems to me by these statistics...

High overhead beginning: 2

Forehead to top of head: 5

Nose to eye level: 6

Neck to chin: 2

Chest: 13

......that of the 28 subjects used in the experiment, approx 7.1 % began over the head, approx 17% started from between the forehead and top of head, approx 21% started from between nose and eye level, approx 7.1 % started from between the neck and chin, and approx 46% started from chest height....more than twice the number of the closest group.

You grouped everyone "above the neck" as one group, which clearly they are not, as far as the test parameters established, indeed there are 4 subgroups within that range, and the results indicated clearly a ratio of at least 2 to 1 starting at chest height as compared with the next most frequently used starting height.

Best regards.

[Sam Flynn]

Back on the specifics Sam, if Mikes experiment results are indicative of anything, its that the overwhelming majority of the subjects wrote at chest height

...um, they didn't actually, Mike. The results showed a small majority who wrote at neck-height or above - although the effect was not statistically significant.

Hello again,

Back on the specifics Sam, if Mikes experiment results are indicative of anything, its that the overwhelming majority of the subjects wrote at chest height, which at 4 feet, is beyond dwarf "chest high" range.

In the case of a teacher, as Mike said, they might start well above their head to write, working down the available space to chest height or below, but this started at 4 feet and worked down, in 5 separate lines I believe, which might mean it wasnt put there to "teach" anyone. It could just be simple venting....perhaps for being accused of a murder that "Juewes" blamed HIM for.

Best regards.

[Chava]

4' off the ground? A kid probably wrote it. He wouldn't have found it too hard to score a bit of chalk at school...

[Sam Flynn]

theres a much more likely chance of leaving a note a Jew might see in that entranceway to dwellings that were approx 90% Jewish.

Fair enough, Mike, but there were loads of other places in that area where equal, or better, odds of achieving such a goal could easily have been achieved.

Be that as it may, this thread is actually about the height of the GSG as a potential clue, rather than the GSG's alleged purpose. There might yet be some mileage in that, though... The graffito would have had a better chance of being seen if it was at eye-level relative to its intended recipients, and given that the GSG was about 4ft off the ground, perhaps we can surmise that most of the tenants were Jewish dwarfs

...in an part of London, covering a large area, that happened to have had a high-density Jewish population, Mike....known to us, by virtue of posterity, but unless both Stride and Eddowes were wearing sandwich-boards declaring "I've been known to do casual work for some Jewish people once in a while", unlikely to have been known to any passer-by at the time.

Hi Sam,

A high Jewish poulation locally and a building that may have had 90% or more Jewish tenants are somewhat skewed comparisons, perhaps the local population in that area was 50 or 60 or even 70 percent Jewish...which it wasnt, but even if so, theres a much more likely chance of leaving a note a Jew might see in that entranceway to dwellings that were approx 90% Jewish.

And on their working for Jewish families,....whose to say one or both didnt have men in their lives that thought very poorly of Jews, and might become agressive with the women for doing so?

Best regards Sam.

[Sam Flynn]

...the witnesses statements for both events are almost all Jewish, and the message is scrawled in an entrance to an almost exclusively Jewish enclave

...in an part of London, covering a large area, that happened to have had a high-density Jewish population, Mike.

and that both women were known to work for Jewish families....

...known to us, by virtue of posterity, but unless both Stride and Eddowes were wearing sandwich-boards declaring "I've been known to do casual work for some Jewish people once in a while", unlikely to have been known to any passer-by at the time.

Interesting thread. My two cents:

There is a debate about whether the message was significantly below shoulder level as to impair legibility. Even if it was, if Jack was kneeling down with the purpose of writing the message as close to the cloth as possible, this is no longer an issue. Kinda funny: By explicitly trying to connect message and bloody cloth via proximity, he has convinced those on his trail 120 years later that a boy most have written the message.

Why not write the message on the red brick? Well perhaps he wanted to be out of the street (not as visible) when he wrote it.

I find it too much of a coincidence that (a) Stride was killed outside a Jewish club and (b) on the same night a bloody cloth from Eddowes was found directly under a message that references "Juwes" to simply conclude that it was just graffiti from a schoolboy. That's not to say that Stride was necessarily a Ripper victim. Perhaps Jack was ticked off that the buzz on the streets was that another Ripper victim had been found on Berner Street. An antisemitic Jack might have been complaining that they never will blame the Jews for anything.

Welcome Barnaby, and my best to Burgho I agree with some of your sentiments, particularly with the notion that co-incidence doesnt quite cover up the fact that 2 murders were committed that night, one on Jewish private property, the other near the Great Synagogue, ...the witnesses statements for both events are almost all Jewish, and the message is scrawled in an entrance to an almost exclusively Jewish enclave, and that both women were known to work for Jewish families....(a point no-one raises much, and a good one considering Liz's more formal than usual attire, judging by the "good clothing" her lodging house friend used to describe her dress...and on a night Jewish families gathered for dinner together),....

The writing is either used as a mere backdrop to his discard if it predated his arrival, or as a message likely that related to one or more of the witnesses from either just Mitre Square, or both sites. But in either case, The Ripper "alligned" himself with the writing.

Best regards all.

[Jon Guy]

And why might it not have been neatly written by a midget?
.

Hello John

Probably not much bigger :

Mrs Long - her man was a few inches taller than the 5 foot Annie Chapman

Levy - two or three inches taller than a 5 foot Eddowes.

Cox - 5 foot five

Lawende and Schwartz - 5 foot 7

[Robert]

While we're on this subject, John, there's also the progression of the murders :

Furiouser and furiouser.

[Johnr]

Off With His Head!

Evening all,
Does anyone else see the Dodgesonian logic in the testimony made by police regarding the Goulston Street chalk message?
The police felt it important to erase the graffiti immediately so as not to stir up further sectarian strife and perhaps prompt a riot.
Yet Superintendent Arnold clearly stated the writing might be erased by people rubbing it with their shoulder as they passed through the vestibule!
So, presumeably, if its lifespan was so precarious why worry?
And why might it not have been neatly written by a midget?
Some time back, I tried to get some knowledgeable person to tell me the dimensions of the foyer/vestibule at the Wentworth Buildings, to find out if the apron was just below the graffiti or further inside, at the foot of the stairs.I still don't know.
And, did you know that the dado arrangement at the Wentworth Buildings is still visible?
Around the corner from Goulston Street in Wenworth Street, there is a sort of covered lane or passageway.At its entrance one can still see the dark green painted wall, with the black dado above. JOHN RUFFELS.

[IchabodCrane]

Too many coincidences

I find it too much of a coincidence that (a) Stride was killed outside a Jewish club and (b) on the same night a bloody cloth from Eddowes was found directly under a message that references "Juwes" to simply conclude that it was just graffiti from a schoolboy. That's not to say that Stride was necessarily a Ripper victim. Perhaps Jack was ticked off that the buzz on the streets was that another Ripper victim had been found on Berner Street. An antisemitic Jack might have been complaining that they never will blame the Jews for anything.

Not only that but (c) the victim Eddowes was also accosted in the immediate vicinity of a Jewish Club and a Jewish Synagogue. That is why the outrage was so great when the graffito, the first tangible lead in the case, was erased.

[The Good Michael]

Diana,

I think it could have been easier to divide this into two groups, one beginning at the bottom of the chest and ending at the chin, and the other beginning from above the chin and going to the maximum reach. I guess what I mean by this is that however it is divided can create the results someone is looking for. I think it's best to just say that no one in this group felt comfortable at less than chest level.

Cheers,

Mike