Height of GSG a Clue?

[Wickerman]

When I started the 28" G....it ended up at 20 inches because the brickwork had a one inch "slice" o' mortar....on three lines.

Howie, buddy, best-pal!
Your gonna slip a disc somewhere, just give it up.
Say this with me, (watch my lips), "The Ripper didn't write it", ...try again, "The Ripper didn't write it",...I can't hear you!!

[Sam Flynn]

I got bad legs, How - so I'll take your word for it. I would, anyway, buddy

However, the idea of Jack squatting in a darkened doorway writing a non-sequitur of a message in a "good schoolboy hand" still seems far more of a stretch... than a schoolboy-sized, um, schoolboy getting up to a bit of calciferous devilment, and barely having to bend his neck in order to do so.

[Howard Brown]

Sammy:

Back in 2004,I attempted writing the G from a crouched position and had no difficulty writing it whatsoever...as far as my legibility went. People did,however,and for some reason usually do...as I have tried it more recently than 2004...have trouble and trouble only, with the second word. I even tried writing it at a height of 28 inches from the ground ( at my workplace ) and had no difficulty or let me put it this way...it was just as easy and legible from that height as it was from 48, 40, and 32 inches. No,I don't believe that there would be much difficulty ( unless the writer was pie-eyed ) in placing a message from 48 to 28 inches.

Again Sam...not to try and schmooze you...because you can obviously try this yourself...start at 48 inches and then crouch to 36 inches or so and you'll see what I mean. As long as you have balance and ain't hammered....the legibility should be relatively the same.

Thanks Stephen T., for the kind remark.

P.S.Sammy:

When I started the 28" G....it ended up at 20 inches because the brickwork had a one inch "slice" o' mortar....on three lines.

One line: 2 inches ( width of brick)
Mortar 1 inch
Second line: 2 inches
Mortar 1 inch
Third line: 2 inches

28-8= 20.

[Stephen Thomas]

...to which I can only add, erm, what I've already pointed out, Stephen - viz., that the writing was apparently neat. A person more used to writing at a height of 5'3" (say) may have found it awkward to produce a good, schoolboy hand if forced to write at a height under four feet - unless crouching or kneeling.

Come to think of it... if the dado was 4' high, then unless the topmost line of writing sailed close to the white-brick border, the GSG would have started lower than four feet off the ground. It also follows that the bottom line of writing would have been even closer to the floor, perhaps 5 inches or so lower than the top line.

So, what we might be talking about is a block of [good, schoolboy] writing, perhaps starting between 3½ and 3¾ feet off the ground, working its way down the wall to a height of between 3' and 3'4". I'm 5'8", and a range of 3' to 3'4" comes somewhere between my thigh and my belly-button. Jack the limbo-dancer, anyone?

Indeed, Sam

You can't strike a match on a bar of soap.

Perhaps the writer was sitting on a pouffe.

[Sam Flynn]

Blimey, Sam, I didn`t realise just how close the writing was to the rag !!!

...well, that's only the "Y" axis sorted, Jon. The jury's still out on how far away it was on the "X" axis

Besides, to me the choice would seem to reduce to either a crouching/kneeling Jack producing a good schoolboy hand in dim light... or a not-so-good schoolchild of, at a guess, between 9-13 years of age, writing in their usual hand under slightly better lighting conditions.

[Jon Guy]

...
So, what we might be talking about is a block of [good, schoolboy] writing, perhaps starting between 3½ and 3¾ feet off the ground, working its way down the wall to a height of between 3' and 3'4".

Blimey, Sam, I didn`t realise just how close the writing was to the rag !!!

[c.d.]

If there was some sort of heated graffiti battle going on, i.e., different groups expressing pro Jewish and anti-Jewish sentiment, the writer (and for the sake of argument, I am assuming it was not Jack) might have knelt or crouched down so that he would not be seen by someone from a rival faction. Thus avoiding the "hey, what are you doing on our turf" question and the unpleasant results of being caught in the act.

c.d.

[Sam Flynn]

Big up to Howard Brown, THE VOICE OF REASON.

...to which I can only add, erm, what I've already pointed out, Stephen - viz., that the writing was apparently neat. A person more used to writing at a height of 5'3" (say) may have found it awkward to produce a good, schoolboy hand if forced to write at a height under four feet - unless crouching or kneeling.

Come to think of it... if the dado was 4' high, then unless the topmost line of writing sailed close to the white-brick border, the GSG would have started lower than four feet off the ground. It also follows that the bottom line of writing would have been even closer to the floor, perhaps 5 inches or so lower than the top line.

So, what we might be talking about is a block of [good, schoolboy] writing, perhaps starting between 3½ and 3¾ feet off the ground, working its way down the wall to a height of between 3' and 3'4". I'm 5'8", and a range of 3' to 3'4" comes somewhere between my thigh and my belly-button. Jack the limbo-dancer, anyone?

[Stephen Thomas]

Regardless of where or how one conducts tests to determine where people ordinarily begin writing ( head height, chest height,etc...) ....the fact remains that the message was placed in an area where the available writing space started at 48 inches or less. The space above the black bricks was white and to write with white chalk on white space would have been counterproductive for any message,regardless of whether or not the Ripper or a civilian wanted to leave some sentiments.

Big up to Howard Brown, THE VOICE OF REASON.

[Sam Flynn]

the fact remains that the message was placed in an area where the available writing space started at 48 inches or less.

True, true, How... but the writing was apparently neat, which would seem to imply that whoever authored the GSG was writing at what was, for them, a comfortable height.

[Sam Flynn]

If the subgroups were defined in ranges that all exist within the neck to forehead, and from the middle of my own neck it is approx 9" to match my forehead's height, then you are grouping the better part of a foot difference in range as being a single group

But the range that might be covered by "chest or below" spans more like two feet in length, Mike.

I was, if anything, being rather kind by choosing those categories, which in any case subsume all points in between. In other words, the superset "neck and above" includes the subsets "neck, chin, nose, eyes, forehead, over-head"; just as the superset "chest and below" includes the subsets "First rib, Second rib (etc)... Stomach... Naughty-bits". Taking the latter approach might have come up with the following scores, for example:

1st-3rd rib: 2
4th-6th rib: 3
7th-9th rib: 3
10th-12th: 3
Stomach: 1
Navel: 1
Groin: 0

Note that I've grouped the ribs to give a rough parity in the spans involved. The total still adds up to 13, but compare that with how the 15 "neck and above" sample breaks down:

Overhead: 2
Forehead/top: 5
Nose/eye: 6
Neck/chin: 2

...all of a sudden, we're (a) looking at a more complex statistical test, because of the greater number of categories; (b) there might actually be a statistically significant tendency for people to write in a region between the nose and the top of head.

I can't make that claim, because I didn't test for that - mainly because we didn't have sufficiently fine-grained data, just "chest", and also because I made up the "rib→groin" data purely by way of illustration.

As it stands, there was no statistically significant difference between the two (coarse-grained) groups "neck/above" and "chest/below", at least not in the case of this experiment, for which my gratitude goes to Michael once again.

[Howard Brown]

Good Mike,Regular Mike & Bad Sam:

Regardless of where or how one conducts tests to determine where people ordinarily begin writing ( head height, chest height,etc...) ....the fact remains that the message was placed in an area where the available writing space started at 48 inches or less. The space above the black bricks was white and to write with white chalk on white space would have been counterproductive for any message,regardless of whether or not the Ripper or a civilian wanted to leave some sentiments.

I have no idea(s) on why the message was left there.

[The Good Michael]

Howard,

So, I should have conducted my experiment beginning at the 48" mark? Why did he choose this height to begin with? It may have had to do with the idea that it would stand out better if written on the dado, but I think it was just more comfortable to write at that level. It was only three lines according to Halse. I don't think that would have taken more than 5 inches of vertical space, from top of chest to base of chest sounds about right, or from brow to chin if a boy did it. Yet, I think there's nothing in it really. I vote we rule out children and move on to why D'Onstan would write such a thing

Addition: Isn't the dado just a groove where one would fit a joist or a shelf? It is strange that the writing would be inset. If that is so, I think it rules out a graffitist.

Cheers,

Mike

If the subgroups were defined in ranges that all exist within the neck to forehead, and from the middle of my own neck it is approx 9" to match my forehead's height, then you are grouping the better part of a foot difference in range as being a single group, and the majority were above the chest in overall numbers.

But what of the exact height of all of them, or reach, what of the personality nuances that come out when people are asked to do similar tests...some might reach when they wouldnt normally, some might consciously try to be "normal".

I suggest the "normal" range in this test is in the chest height groups numbers. Because we have to assume that some from each group will not be usable due to the quirks or physical differences in the subjects.

In a test like this, informal and unscientific, surely you'd agree that to see that 13 people of 28 decided to write at chest height, and no more than 6 people could decide to write at various levels above that indicates that although the cumulative numbers favour above the neck, the majority of test subjects chose chest height as their group.

Im not trying to beat this to death, I can add..but surely you see what Im going for.

Cheers and manyana.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam,

Its not that I am unfamiliar with having virtually every post I offer shot down by you, but it seems to me by these statistics...

High overhead beginning: 2
Forehead to top of head: 5
Nose to eye level: 6
Neck to chin: 2
Chest: 13

Mike,

13 at chest level

2 + 5 + 6 + 2 = 15 at above-chest level

Never mind the percentages, or the sub-categories. The bottom line is that a small majority wrote at neck-level or above, compared to those who wrote at chest-level or below (an aggregate of 15 as against 13).

You grouped everyone "above the neck" as one group, which clearly they are not

Of course they are. The chin, nose, eyes, forehead and "overhead" are all members of the group "above chest level". Arranging data into groups is a perfectly legitimate part of the statistical method.

If you want to dis-aggregate, then "chest level or below" should be broken down into "First rib... Second rib... Third rib... etc." down to "Gastric... Umbilical... Naughty-bits".