Lusk Letter and Suggested Irish Syntax

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  • Filby
    Constable
    • May 2022
    • 88

    #1

    Lusk Letter and Suggested Irish Syntax

    I was recently reviewing the video library, and in the "Phantom of Death" documentary, a comment was made (not by Sudgen of Fido, interestingly, but by the narrator) that the Lusk letter was "probably from the actual killer" and the "syntax was Irish." Where did the documentary come up with this idea of an Irish connotation? Has the Lusk letter been studied by the police for its ethnic origins? I also wonder as well, why isn't there more information and questioning regarding the suspects' dialects in general during these investigations.
  • erobitha
    Chief Inspector
    • Apr 2019
    • 1730

    #2
    The assumption was that certain words, when pronounced, would sound Irish. However, I am inclined to believe the writer was actually trying to present themselves as an uneducated cockney.

    In my opinion, he was neither Irish nor a cockney.

    Jay Hartley believes the same person who wrote the 'Openshaw Letter' was also behind the famous 'From Hell letter'. That was 'Jack the Ripper'.


    Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
    JayHartley.com

    Comment

    • Sam Flynn
      Casebook Supporter
      • Feb 2008
      • 13322

      #3
      It's quite possible that the writer was affecting an Irish accent, peppering the letter with what might be called "Stage Irish":

      "Sor" (Sir), "prasarved" (preserved), "tother piece", "wate a whil longer" and "Mishter" (mister).
      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

      Comment

      • Losmandris
        Sergeant
        • May 2019
        • 715

        #4
        I wonder if there is any contemporary evidence that people actually wrote like that in other letters, correspondence etc.? Does come across as all a bit 'Am Dram' to me. Not sure what you would call it/or explain it but in reading it, to me at least in my head I hear a very strong Irish accent coming through.
        Best wishes,

        Tristan

        Comment

        • Abby Normal
          Commissioner
          • Jun 2010
          • 11901

          #5
          or the writer was irish and was writing phonetically
          "Is all that we see or seem
          but a dream within a dream?"

          -Edgar Allan Poe


          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

          -Frederick G. Abberline

          Comment

          • Sam Flynn
            Casebook Supporter
            • Feb 2008
            • 13322

            #6
            Originally posted by Losmandris View Post
            I wonder if there is any contemporary evidence that people actually wrote like that in other letters, correspondence etc.?
            I'm not sure how often it occurred in private correspondence, but trying to convey accents in writing was very common in plays, books and popular literature. The novels of Dickens are probably the best known, and there are even examples in Shakespeare.
            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

            Comment

            • c.d.
              Commissioner
              • Feb 2008
              • 6553

              #7
              Yo, Sam. Welcome back, brother! You have been gone too long.

              c.d.

              Comment

              • Losmandris
                Sergeant
                • May 2019
                • 715

                #8
                Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

                I'm not sure how often it occurred in private correspondence, but trying to convey accents in writing was very common in plays, books and popular literature. The novels of Dickens are probably the best known, and there are even examples in Shakespeare.
                My point exactly. Does come across as a piece of dialogue in a book or a play!
                Best wishes,

                Tristan

                Comment

                • Sam Flynn
                  Casebook Supporter
                  • Feb 2008
                  • 13322

                  #9
                  Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                  Yo, Sam. Welcome back, brother! You have been gone too long.

                  c.d.
                  Thanks, CD! Hopefully I'll be chipping in now and again
                  Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                  "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                  Comment

                  • Filby
                    Constable
                    • May 2022
                    • 88

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                    It's quite possible that the writer was affecting an Irish accent, peppering the letter with what might be called "Stage Irish":

                    "Sor" (Sir), "prasarved" (preserved), "tother piece", "wate a whil longer" and "Mishter" (mister).
                    So you presume the letter is a fake?..forgery then.

                    Comment

                    • Filby
                      Constable
                      • May 2022
                      • 88

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

                      I'm not sure how often it occurred in private correspondence, but trying to convey accents in writing was very common in plays, books and popular literature. The novels of Dickens are probably the best known, and there are even examples in Shakespeare.
                      Exactly. I'm still an amateur ripperologist but I find it remarkable that the dialect of suspects was so little asked by the police to the key witnesses. .. or not documented? But that's evidence that could rule out plenty of the JtR suspect list.

                      Comment

                      • Sam Flynn
                        Casebook Supporter
                        • Feb 2008
                        • 13322

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Filby View Post

                        So you presume the letter is a fake?..forgery then.
                        I think it unlikely that any of the letters were from JTR, and the Lusk Letter is no exception. It's such an obvious piece of grand guignol that it was probably nothing more than a macabre prank.
                        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                        Comment

                        • Trevor Marriott
                          Commissioner
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 9449

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                          or the writer was irish and was writing phonetically
                          The same could be said for the GS graffiti JUWES=JURORS

                          Comment

                          • Sam Flynn
                            Casebook Supporter
                            • Feb 2008
                            • 13322

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                            or the writer was irish and was writing phonetically
                            The problem there is that the Irish actually pronounce "mister" more like "misther", but never "mishter".
                            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                            Comment

                            • Abby Normal
                              Commissioner
                              • Jun 2010
                              • 11901

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

                              The problem there is that the Irish actually pronounce "mister" more like "misther", but never "mishter".
                              thanks Sam. And welcome back! been too long.
                              "Is all that we see or seem
                              but a dream within a dream?"

                              -Edgar Allan Poe


                              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                              -Frederick G. Abberline

                              Comment

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