Jack the Ripper: Man or Myth?

[Batman]

Two different killers performing hysterectomies with Eddowes also having a kidney taken out in under 10 minutes including other mutilations?

Then of course we have the Kelly different killer crowd who need him to be able to do heart extraction from under the rib cage.

Was there a University teaching people lust murders or something?

If... And its a big if.... there was a copycat, then it's JtR who copied Tabrams murder.

[Michael W Richards]

Thanks for mentioning me in conjunction with Lynn, Im pleased to be in that tiny cabal.

I think the evidence as it exists suggests that;

1. Polly and Annie were killed by the same hand, whether one or more people were involved isn't clear.
2. Liz Stride was killed by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, by a thug.
3. Kate Eddowes was killed by someone emulating the 1st 2 murders, and for reasons which I suspect stem from her knowledge of local no-goodnicks and her assertion she knew the killer at large. Due to her very coincidental use of most of Mary Jane Kellys name and address is the last 2 aliases she uses with 24 hours of her murder, her murder may have connections with Kellys. Anagrams of the 2 aliases show she used Mary Jane Kelly of 6 Dorset street, an almost complete name and address of the following victim.
4. Mary was killed by someone who knew her, someone who wanted her murder to be thought committed by a Ripper, and the rage expressed in the facial slashing and the callous treatment of her remains suggests a romantic relationship. We have NO IDEA who the "other" Joe was, but that unknown fella is a better bet for the murderer than the unknown fella many people would like to assign every unsolved murder in Whitechapel in 1888 to.

In conclusion, yes, the existing assumptions about who and how many people were killed by one man are likely incorrect, and therefore so is the legend of Jack the Ripper, as a result.

Cheers

[Abby Normal]

Hello CD. Thanks.

OK, I think I understand you. I have long thought that:

1. Whoever killed Kate was convinced that Polly and Annie's killer was caught.

2. Whoever killed Kate relied on Polly and Annie's killer to be completely unable to confess or be coherent.

In fact, it was these considerations that led me to look into the September suspects and, in doing so, I found Isenschmid.

Cheers.
LC

Hi LC
If Polly and Annies killer was already caught, why would they think they could blame eddowes murder on him? he couldn't have done it since he was in jail.

[Michael W Richards]

Hi LC
If Polly and Annies killer was already caught, why would they think they could blame eddowes murder on him? he couldn't have done it since he was in jail.

He could have been institutionalized, not arrested. Isnt that the scenario for the Seaside Home....being held for mental health issues and without formal charges? I answered for Lynn to save him the compromise of having to utilize his own ideas for a purely hypothetical argument. This way I can take the flak.

A better than average degree of skill and knowledge to use a knife effectively isn't present in all 5 Canonical murders. That's indisputable. In fact there is one murder included that isn't a "ripping" at all.

Doesn't that alone indicate a Canonical Group as an accepted foundation of this study is ridiculous?

[Harry D]

4. Mary was killed by someone who knew her, someone who wanted her murder to be thought committed by a Ripper...

If what you say is true, Michael, is it not possible for the Ripper to have known MJK? Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?

As for Eddowes, I've already stated that the additional layers of clothing the victim was wearing that night might explain why the Ripper's handiwork appeared sloppier than before. A simple explanation and one that foregoes the need to start populating Whitechapel with a bunch of would-be Rippers.

[lynn cates]

blame

Hello Abby. Thanks. (Almost missed this.)

"If Polly and Annie's killer was already caught, why would they think they could blame Eddowes's murder on him? He couldn't have done it since he was in jail."

IF it were known that it was him. IF I wished to kill and have the murder subsumed under another, I would need to:

1. Be quite certain that the killer were apprehended.

2. Be quite certain that the killer were somehow unable to be blamed for the murder.

3. Have the murder blamed on some terrible killer still perpetrating crimes of a like nature.

Cheers.
LC

[Batman]

A better than average degree of skill and knowledge to use a knife effectively isn't present in all 5 Canonical murders. That's indisputable. In fact there is one murder included that isn't a "ripping" at all.

Doesn't that alone indicate a Canonical Group as an accepted foundation of this study is ridiculous?

The murdering of prostitutes is a lust killing. None of the prostitutes displayed signs of recent connection. So out of all these proposed different killers, none of them raped their victims. It's extremely rare to have a lust killer who doesn't rape his victims, let alone 5 of them.

The Canonical 5 are a classic case of escalation. Not all where ripped, but all were slashed.

Can you name other prostitute killers who didn't rape their victims? Thanks

[Michael W Richards]

The murdering of prostitutes is a lust killing. None of the prostitutes displayed signs of recent connection. So out of all these proposed different killers, none of them raped their victims. It's extremely rare to have a lust killer who doesn't rape his victims, let alone 5 of them.

The Canonical 5 are a classic case of escalation. Not all where ripped, but all were slashed.

Can you name other prostitute killers who didn't rape their victims? Thanks

Tell you what, before I argue your premise, prove to me that Liz Stride, Kate Eddowes and Mary Kelly met their killer while prostituting. Ill save you time....there is ZERO evidence in those 3 cases that was the situation, plus Liz Stride had regular cleaning work and Mary was in her own room. Neither needed to solicit the night they were killed, Kate situation is less clear, but again, no evidence exists that those 3 women were soliciting when they met their killer.

Now you might understand why I take offense at statements that assume the worst about these women without any proof, or assume we are looking for a serial killer of 5 prostitutes.

You and others need to refresh your memory about what an Unfortunate actually means. As far as I can tell, the only Canonical who could legitimately be called a prostitute rather than an Unfortunate was Polly.

[Batman]

Ordinary Citiziens? I doubt it.

Being a prostitute doesn't make one incapitated to do other jobs/work, as we know from the other Whitechapel prostitutes who had work too. Also owning your own room doesn't exclude you from being a prostitute either. Just means you are a little more wealthy. Prostitutes don't have to be making money 24/7 either. They can certainly do it occasionally and are casual prostitutes in this sense and meet the definition fine (and hence JtRs victimology).

Proving prostitution even today isn't an easy task. However since in the reports police don't bring up this issue like you just did, and more often than not, make references to prostitutes being targetted by JtR, I am skeptical of your claim that there isn't evidence to support JtRs victims were prostitutes.

You do know that Anderson was going to have every prostitute arrested who was out after midnight?

Eddowes - Seen late at night with a man putting her hand on his chest (who wasn't Conway) after leaving jail for drunk and disorderly. That's not conduct of an ordinary citizien at those times in that place. Paul Begg has her down as a prostitute and cites The Star.

Stride was registered by police as a prostitute. On the night of her murder she was witnessed being alone with several different men before meeting her death. That's more consistant with prostitution in whitechapel than not. Also, nobody knew who she was because it tooks days to ID her. That's what happens if you are a stranger prostitute.

MJK, like Stride, was seen with several men and taking them back to her room. Again, this is consistant with prostitution, rather than not. Also she had prostitutes within her close inner-circle of friends.

Now let's say for the sake of argument, you are right. I think you will still find a problem posed by the question I asked. You have 5 deaths, 4 are lust murders, 1 is still a slashing and no signs of recent connection or sex. All that stuff about prostitutes finding ways to not have sex by just closing their legs or something is fiction brought on by the movie, From Hell... and is also just plain silly. You would have to be destroyed drunk to fall for that. Basically what the doctors are telling us is that there is no semen at the scene. So you need all your killers to be impotent and or don't produce semen.

I will grant you that the Yorkshire Ripper turned to ordinary citiziens either by mistake or just because they met this fantasy, but he certainly did target prostitutes.