JTR compared to JFK

[Michael W Richards]

JFK was a hawk, who firmly believed in Containment. He had told a an anti-war politician that if re-elected he would start withdrawing US troops from Vietnam at a rate of 1000 per year, which would have resulted in the last troops being pulled out in 1980. And JFK had done nothing to execute this supposed withdrawal plan.

LBJ kept on McNamara, JFK's Secretary of Defense, who was strongly for escalating the war at that time. LBJ didn't start escalating the war until the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, nearly a year after JFK's death.

The person who did withdraw us from Vietnam was Nixon. Nixon, the one who actually cut off the supposed cash flow, was not assassinated.

"National Security Action Memorandum No. 263 was approved by President Kennedy on 11 October. NSAM 263 accepted the military recommendations of McNamara and Taylor, as follows: (1) changes to be accomplished by the government of South Vietnam to improve its military performance; (2) a training program for Vietnamese "so that essential functions can be carried out by Vietnamese by the end of 1965. It should be possible to withdraw the bulk of U.S. personnel by that time"; and (3) withdrawal as previously planned of 1,000 U.S. military personnel by the end of 1963. NSAM 263 specifies that no formal announcement be made of the withdrawal.^[9]"

He had already made plans to end the US involvement in Vietnam by 1965, and had initial withdrawls already planned for later in 1963.

Now, your Magic Bullet;

"The theory says that a three-centimeter-long (1.2") copper-jacketed lead-core bullet from a 6.5×52mm Mannlicher–Carcano rifle fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository passed through President Kennedy's neck into Governor Connally's chest, went through his right wrist, and embedded itself in Connally's left thigh. If so, this bullet traversed a back brace, 15 layers of clothing, seven layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches (38 cm) of muscle tissue, and pulverized 4 inches (10 cm) of Connally's rib, and shattered his radius bone. The bullet was found on a gurney in the corridor at Parkland Memorial Hospital after the assassination. The Warren Commission found that this gurney was the one that had carried Governor Connally.^[4]

In its final conclusion, the Warren Commission found "persuasive evidence from the experts" that a single bullet caused President Kennedy's neck wound, and all of the wounds found in Governor Connally.^[5] It acknowledged that there was a "difference of opinion" among members of the Commission "as to this probability", but stated that the theory was not essential to its conclusions and that all members had no doubt that all shots were fired from the sixth-floor window of the Depository building.

Most critics believe that the single-bullet theory is essential to the Warren Commission's conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.^[6] The reason for this is timing: if, as the Warren Commission found, President Kennedy was wounded some time between frames 210 and 225 of the Zapruder film,^[7] and Governor Connally was wounded in the back/chest no later than frame 240,^[8] There would not have been enough time between the wounding of the two men for Oswald to have fired two shots from his bolt-action rifle. FBI marksmen, who test-fired the rifle for the Warren Commission, concluded that the "minimum time for getting off two successive well-aimed shots on the rifle is approximately 2 and a quarter seconds", or 41 to 42 Zapruder frames.^[9][10]"




"According to one popular version of the single-bullet theory (promoted by Gerald Posner in his book, Case Closed), the interval between frame 223 and 224 is the time the same projectile passes through both Kennedy and Connally's body. It is not obvious at this point (frame 224) whether Connally has, or has not, been hit; however, Connally, but not other limousine occupants, is newly blurred in frame 224 but not in frame 223. Connally himself, in analyzing the frame-by-frame Zapruder film, identified his own hit later, at about Zapruder frame 230, whereas Kennedy is certainly hit about Zapruder frame 224, a third of a second earlier. Beginning immediately after frame 224, Connally rapidly raises and then lowers both arms, then turns to his right toward the Zapruder camera, but it is not clear that he is turning to see what has happened to Kennedy."


Please refer to the diagram and all the reams of literature that is available on the Magic Bullet before making a statement like its been "proven". All that has been proven is that the single bullet "solution" defies timing, physics and the visual evidence.

[Fiver]

Please refer to the diagram and all the reams of literature that is available on the Magic Bullet before making a statement like its been "proven". All that has been proven is that the single bullet "solution" defies timing, physics and the visual evidence.

That "diagram" is complete nonsense. Examination of any of the photographic evidence shows it's wrong about almost everything - the direction that JFK was struck from, JFK's actual position on the seat, the direction Connally was facing, and the position that Connally was holding his arm.

Your diagram also shows how nonsensical the multiple bullet theory is. It appears to require:

* A bullet from the Grassy Knoll that curves in midair to miss Connally, then makes a sharp right curve in midair, begins tumbling before it enters the front of JFK's throat, and then completely disappears.

* A tumbling bullet that enters Connally's back from an angle that only makes sense if JFK shot him, exits Connally's chest, and completely disappears.

* A tumbling bullet from Connally's left rear, that curves in midair to miss his torso, curves again in midair to hit his wrist, and completely disappears.

* A bullet that strikes Connally's leg travelling sideways from a direction that only makes sense if God shot Connally.

[Fiver]

"National Security Action Memorandum No. 263 was approved by President Kennedy on 11 October. NSAM 263 accepted the military recommendations of McNamara and Taylor, as follows: (1) changes to be accomplished by the government of South Vietnam to improve its military performance; (2) a training program for Vietnamese "so that essential functions can be carried out by Vietnamese by the end of 1965. It should be possible to withdraw the bulk of U.S. personnel by that time"; and (3) withdrawal as previously planned of 1,000 U.S. military personnel by the end of 1963. NSAM 263 specifies that no formal announcement be made of the withdrawal.^[9]"

He had already made plans to end the US involvement in Vietnam by 1965, and had initial withdrawls already planned for later in 1963.

Your summary of NSAM 263 is incorrect - just read the link you shared.

Or better still, the actual text.

1. The security of South Viet-Nam is a major interest of the United States as of other free nations. We will adhere to our policy of working with the people and Government of South Viet-Nam to deny this country to communism and to suppress the externally stimulated and supported insurgency of the Viet Cong as promptly as possible. Effective performance in this undertaking is the central objective of our policy in South Viet-Nam.

2. The military program in South Viet-Nam has made progress and is sound in principle, though improvements are being energetically sought.

3. Major U.S. assistance in support of this military effort is needed only until the insurgency has been suppressed or until the national security forces of the Government of South Viet-Nam are capable of suppressing it.

Secretary McNamara and General Taylor reported their judgement that the major part of the U.S. military task can be completed by the end of 1965, although there may be a continuing requirement for a limited number of U.S. training personnel. They reported that by the end of this year, the U.S. program for training Vietnamese should have progressed to the point where 1,000 U.S. military personnel assigned to South Viet-Nam can be withdrawn.

NSAM 63 called for withdrawing most, but not all of US forces by 1965 if the Viet Cong "has been suppressed or until the national security forces of the Government of South Viet-Nam are capable of suppressing it."

So what did LBJ do? The day after JFK's funeral, he issued NSAM 273.

"The objectives of the United States with respect to the withdrawal of U. S. military personnel remain as stated in the White House statement of October 2, 1963."

So in November of 1963, LBJ's policy on Vietnam was exactly the same as JFK's policy on Vietnam.

The supposed coup didn't change any of JFK's policies or any of his Cabinet.

[GBinOz]

Now, your Magic Bullet;

"[I]The theory says that a three-centimeter-long (1.2") copper-jacketed lead-core bullet from a 6.5×52mm Mannlicher–Carcano rifle fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository passed through President Kennedy's neck into Governor Connally's chest, went through his right wrist, and embedded itself in Connally's left thigh. If so, this bullet traversed a back brace, 15 layers of clothing, seven layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches (38 cm) of muscle tissue, and pulverized 4 inches (10 cm) of Connally's rib, and shattered his radius bone. The bullet was found on a gurney in the corridor at Parkland Memorial Hospital after the assassination. The Warren Commission found that this gurney was the one that had carried Governor Connally.^[4]

Hi Michael,

Oswald’s alleged position was not only above and behind Kennedy, but also to his right – 9 degrees, 21 minutes to the right by Nichols’ calculations. That means the bullet coursed leftward by slightly less than 10 degrees as it traversed Kennedy’s chest. Oswald’s alleged position was measured at about 17 degrees above JFK at the moment of the back shot. (Nichols puts the “depressed angle” at 20 degrees, 23 minutes. But subtracting the 3-degree down slope of the street, the angle is about 17 degrees.) Had the bullet followed a strait line, its passage through the vertebra would have badly mutilated the bullet, and the one in evidence is virtually undamaged.

The autopsy diagram, the death certificate, the holes in the clothing, all the witnesses at the autopsy, and Cliff Hill all agreed that the back shot was 5-6 inches below the shoulder line. The single bullet theory is immediately shown to be a non starter. But wait. Gerald Ford, who wasn't at the autopsy, with a whisk of his pencil moved the back shot up six inches to be a neck shot. The single bullet theory contradicts the original FBI conclusion that Kennedy was hit by two shots and Connolly was hit by a separate shot. It has no place in modern considerations.

Cheers, George

[Michael W Richards]

.... But wait. Gerald Ford, who wasn't at the autopsy, with a whisk of his pencil moved the back shot up six inches to be a neck shot. The single bullet theory contradicts the original FBI conclusion that Kennedy was hit by two shots and Connolly was hit by a separate shot. It has no place in modern considerations.

Cheers, George

Hi George,

I recall seeing that about Ford and was astounded. It seems the WC had one goal, to make a single shooter seem feasible. Problem is that there is too much to control, including bystanders and medical personelle and.... science. When you post something like the above, and I post some serious problems with the prevailing theory about what happened, its remarkable how many people object. Its not like this is your or my opinion, its right there in plain sight.

[Michael W Richards]

Your summary of NSAM 263 is incorrect - just read the link you shared.

Or better still, the actual text.

1. The security of South Viet-Nam is a major interest of the United States as of other free nations. We will adhere to our policy of working with the people and Government of South Viet-Nam to deny this country to communism and to suppress the externally stimulated and supported insurgency of the Viet Cong as promptly as possible. Effective performance in this undertaking is the central objective of our policy in South Viet-Nam.

2. The military program in South Viet-Nam has made progress and is sound in principle, though improvements are being energetically sought.

3. Major U.S. assistance in support of this military effort is needed only until the insurgency has been suppressed or until the national security forces of the Government of South Viet-Nam are capable of suppressing it.

Secretary McNamara and General Taylor reported their judgement that the major part of the U.S. military task can be completed by the end of 1965, although there may be a continuing requirement for a limited number of U.S. training personnel. They reported that by the end of this year, the U.S. program for training Vietnamese should have progressed to the point where 1,000 U.S. military personnel assigned to South Viet-Nam can be withdrawn.

NSAM 63 called for withdrawing most, but not all of US forces by 1965 if the Viet Cong "has been suppressed or until the national security forces of the Government of South Viet-Nam are capable of suppressing it."

So what did LBJ do? The day after JFK's funeral, he issued NSAM 273.

"The objectives of the United States with respect to the withdrawal of U. S. military personnel remain as stated in the White House statement of October 2, 1963."

So in November of 1963, LBJ's policy on Vietnam was exactly the same as JFK's policy on Vietnam.

The supposed coup didn't change any of JFK's policies or any of his Cabinet.

You need to read further into what actually happened under Johnsons direction. Not what "gestures" were made.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Why did the conspirators plant 3 shells on the 6th floor if there was a second gunman firing from the Knoll? It’s a simple question.

[Michael W Richards]

Why did the conspirators plant 3 shells on the 6th floor if there was a second gunman firing from the Knoll? It’s a simple question.

Im not sure who this is directed at, but If I was to guess someone either shot from that window, or it was made to appear that way. In any targeted assassination, (and the US is no stranger to "taking out" people that they want rid of..remember they planned and tried to execute an assassination of Fidel).., multiple angle shooters, or even triangulation, gives the best odds for success. Some shooters might be placed and never need to shoot themselves if the target is already down.

The fact that the medical authorities upon first inspecting the wounds on Kennedy thought, as George mentioned, the throat wound was an entry wound, not exit. And we have someone that was seen on the overpass, and at the knoll. FBI chased someone down the tracks after being alerted someone was seen fleeing. And a few people saw a puff of smoke. Misdirection, misleading information, planting evidence..are all things that the CIA, FBI and other National Security agencies do. Its their thing. Thats why they were involved with the Castro plan in the first place.

The troubling details that cannot be explained away concerning this assassination will never be fully addressed, the fact that there are still lots of files locked away that have never been examined and the ones that have been released have been in some cases heavily redacted prove that they have no real interest in letting the citizens know what they know. Its no different to Roswell. First the truth accidentally comes out, then spin and lies try to denounce that truth. Weather balloon my a**.

They only admitted to Area 51 and Project Bluebook's existence in recent years. Likely because some people inside the organizations leaked some info to the right people. The problem with the Kennedy whitewash is that anyone who knew anything also knew that the very fabric of Democracy could be torn apart if a coup was discovered. Its about more than 1 life, or 1 million lives, its the very foundation of who they want to be and be seen as.

[Fiver]

You need to read further into what actually happened under Johnsons direction. Not what "gestures" were made.

NSAM 273 was not a gesture, it was a top secret policy directive to the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, the Director of Central Intelligence, the Administrator of the Agency for International Development, and the Director of the United States Information Agency.

I have read what LBJ did. I have mentioned it in this thread. LBJ did not change JFK's policy in Vietnam when he became President. He changed it abut a year after JFK's death, in response to the increasing instability of the South Vietnamese government and the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.

[Fiver]

Im not sure who this is directed at, but If I was to guess someone either shot from that window, or it was made to appear that way. In any targeted assassination, (and the US is no stranger to "taking out" people that they want rid of..remember they planned and tried to execute an assassination of Fidel).., multiple angle shooters, or even triangulation, gives the best odds for success. Some shooters might be placed and never need to shoot themselves if the target is already down.

The fact that the medical authorities upon first inspecting the wounds on Kennedy thought, as George mentioned, the throat wound was an entry wound, not exit. And we have someone that was seen on the overpass, and at the knoll. FBI chased someone down the tracks after being alerted someone was seen fleeing. And a few people saw a puff of smoke. Misdirection, misleading information, planting evidence..are all things that the CIA, FBI and other National Security agencies do. Its their thing. Thats why they were involved with the Castro plan in the first place.

The troubling details that cannot be explained away concerning this assassination will never be fully addressed, the fact that there are still lots of files locked away that have never been examined and the ones that have been released have been in some cases heavily redacted prove that they have no real interest in letting the citizens know what they know. Its no different to Roswell. First the truth accidentally comes out, then spin and lies try to denounce that truth. Weather balloon my a**.

They only admitted to Area 51 and Project Bluebook's existence in recent years. Likely because some people inside the organizations leaked some info to the right people. The problem with the Kennedy whitewash is that anyone who knew anything also knew that the very fabric of Democracy could be torn apart if a coup was discovered. Its about more than 1 life, or 1 million lives, its the very foundation of who they want to be and be seen as.

You used a lot of words, but you didn't answer Herlock's question.

Why did the conspirators plant 3 shells on the 6th floor if there was a second gunman firing from the Knoll?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Im not sure who this is directed at, but If I was to guess someone either shot from that window, or it was made to appear that way. In any targeted assassination, (and the US is no stranger to "taking out" people that they want rid of..remember they planned and tried to execute an assassination of Fidel).., multiple angle shooters, or even triangulation, gives the best odds for success. Some shooters might be placed and never need to shoot themselves if the target is already down.

But they didn’t try and set someone up as a fall guy because it’s a chronically stupid and pointlessly risky addition. They aimed for a plan where the assassin(s) got away. Why the change of plan to a massively more risky one for the assassination of the President? No one in the world would have signed off on that.

The fact that the medical authorities upon first inspecting the wounds on Kennedy thought, as George mentioned, the throat wound was an entry wound, not exit. And we have someone that was seen on the overpass, and at the knoll. FBI chased someone down the tracks after being alerted someone was seen fleeing. And a few people saw a puff of smoke. Misdirection, misleading information, planting evidence..are all things that the CIA, FBI and other National Security agencies do. Its their thing. Thats why they were involved with the Castro plan in the first place.

Not all of them. And most of those that did admitted that they were wrong. Or you have proven fantasists like Crenshaw.

The troubling details that cannot be explained away concerning this assassination will never be fully addressed, the fact that there are still lots of files locked away that have never been examined and the ones that have been released have been in some cases heavily redacted prove that they have no real interest in letting the citizens know what they know. Its no different to Roswell. First the truth accidentally comes out, then spin and lies try to denounce that truth. Weather balloon my a**.

But we know the truth. Kennedy and Tippit were murdered by Lee Harvey Oswald. To have covered up the conspiracy that’s being suggested is as near to being impossible as could be. No one would have risked it. And too little changed with Johnson in the White House. Those rogue right-wingers got Johnson pushing through civil rights legislation.

They only admitted to Area 51 and Project Bluebook's existence in recent years. Likely because some people inside the organizations leaked some info to the right people. The problem with the Kennedy whitewash is that anyone who knew anything also knew that the very fabric of Democracy could be torn apart if a coup was discovered. Its about more than 1 life, or 1 million lives, its the very foundation of who they want to be and be seen as.

As Fiver has said, you didn’t answer the question. Why would they plant just 3 shells if they knew that there was another shooter firing as well? It makes absolutely no sense. Unless they were the worlds most stupid plotters we should conclude that it never happened.

There were at least 11 people on top of the underpass so it would have been absolutely impossible for there to have been a gunman in that area without anyone noticing and the gunman couldn’t have fired from the other tunnel because James Tague was there. So the underpass is conclusively out as a location for a gunman.

And so we get the Grassy Knoll which gives us another ‘magic bullet’ but one that those who favour conspiracy tend not to like talking about. For a bullet to have been fired from the Knoll to have hit Kennedy when it did it would have exited on the left side of the body but no, it apparently turned to the left and then vanished into thin air. Is that a sustainable suggestion?

And what group high level, highly trained conspirators would have placed a gunman at ground level behind a fence, with spectators with cameras and movie cameras everywhere and in from of a jam-packed carpark that was used by the Dallas Sheriffs office and the courthouse? Not to mention a railway tower where Lee Bowers saw zilch until he spoke to Mark Lane when he started to remember seeing puffs of smoke. Isn’t it strange how many witnesses start ‘remembering’ stuff after a chat with Lane?

My other favourite question that never, ever gets answered - why would conspirators have gone to all of that organisational trouble and complication to set up an allegedly corrupt autopsy when they left Parkland entirely free from influence? That point alone should eliminate any talk of conspiracy. A let’s remember…..if Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy they’d gave known that he’d ve taken to Parkland but that wasn’t the case for Bethesda. That was only decided on aboard airforce one when Kennedy’s personal physician gave the decision to Jackie. Was she ‘in on it too?’ As I’ve described it before - it would have been like bank robbers only putting on their masks after they’d got into the getaway car. It just makes no sense.

[Michael W Richards]

As Fiver has said, you didn’t answer the question. Why would they plant just 3 shells if they knew that there was another shooter firing as well?

Im not here to make anyone feel better about why people like myself feel that the investigation into Kennedys murder was a whitewash. I have the same evidence to review as you all, so perhaps youll find some answers for yourself in that data? As to why they left 3 shells on the 6th floor by the window, because the whole operation was carried out with the premise that Lee Harvey Oswald would be blamed. Do we know that Oswald actually used that alias to buy that gun? The gun that came into evidence is 4" shorter than the one that was supposedly ordered by Oswald, using an alias.

A decision was made that Kennedy had to go, by whomever, a plan was constructed and a fall guy was chosen. There was never any thought of leaving this unsolved...they wanted it nice and tidy. Thats why they spent so much time trying to show that a bullet can somehow dance through the air, make multiple wounds.. one through bone, and still remain undamaged. Do you know how long Oswald had that job? Do you know who found it for him? How is it that the CIA, who claimed Oswald wasnt on their radar, had been tracked by the same organization. They knew about Mexico before Nov 22, they knew about New Orleans before Nov 22, ..and why would they care about some lone defector? Because he wasnt really that at all.

Have you read the National Archive documents they have been releasing since early 2000's? Everyone should. Everyone who wants to discuss the case anyway.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Im not here to make anyone feel better about why people like myself feel that the investigation into Kennedys murder was a whitewash. I have the same evidence to review as you all, so perhaps youll find some answers for yourself in that data? As to why they left 3 shells on the 6th floor by the window, because the whole operation was carried out with the premise that Lee Harvey Oswald would be blamed.

You appear to be missing the point. How could they have explained it if the 6th floor shooter had had 3 hits out of three and Mr Grassy Knoll had hit once or twice. How could 4 or five bullet wounds have been explained by Oswald’s 3 shells? I repeat….it makes no sense.

Do we know that Oswald actually used that alias to buy that gun? The gun that came into evidence is 4" shorter than the one that was supposedly ordered by Oswald, using an alias.

If there were conspirators we’re trying to set up Oswald why not just order the weapons using Oswald’s own name? Why leave any element of doubt? The rifle was shorter because the company had run out of the longer version. This has all been shown by research into the records.

Why should you think that I want you to make me feel better? The crime was solved in 1963. Since then researchers have hit on errors and discrepancies that you always get (and in a vast case like this there are bound to be even more) and they have usually twisted everything to fit ‘conspiracy.’ There case has been helped by proven liars like Jim Garrison, Mark Lane and Robert Groden to name but three. Add to that you get attention-seeking fantasist witnesses like Beverly Oliver, Ed Hoffman etc. Then all that’s left is to baselessly yell ‘fake’ and ‘forgery’ and ‘coercion’ at the mountain of evidence that categorically convicts Oswald. Then the bandwagon is well and truly rolling. Add a loonie like Oliver Stone and we have people ‘assuming’ conspiracy.

A decision was made that Kennedy had to go, by whomever, a plan was constructed and a fall guy was chosen. There was never any thought of leaving this unsolved...they wanted it nice and tidy. Thats why they spent so much time trying to show that a bullet can somehow dance through the air, make multiple wounds.. one through bone, and still remain undamaged.

But this makes no sense Michael. If they wanted ‘clean and tidy’ (and I agree with you that that’s what they would have undoubtedly wanted) having no gunman would have made no difference. To say that it would is just a construct to justify something that’s not believable. it would have been…..completely anonymous sniper, best rifle money could buy, high up room with absolutely no chance of being disturbed, the killer would have been able to have been named, he would have worn gloves and there would have been a getaway car waiting for him (probably at the rear of the building.) Ten minutes after the shot was fired the assassin would have been 5 miles away.

The single bullet theory has been proven completely valid by computer graphics. Tested by experts. And the bullet wasn’t undamaged. It was bent and flattened at one end. Test have been done on bullets, sometimes they got mashed up but sometimes they didn’t.

Do you know how long Oswald had that job? Do you know who found it for him?

I can’t recall exactly how long he had the job but I think it was about 5 weeks. He got the job because Ruth Paine and Marina Oswald went to a coffee morning and Linnie May Randle was there (there was at least one more woman there but I can’t recall her name) Marina said the Lee was looking for a job so that they could get a place together. Randle said that her brother, Buell, had recently got a job at the TSBD and advised her to get him to apply to Roy Truly. Marina asked Ruth to call because Marina’s English was poor. Oswald went for an interview and got the job. The TSBD had a second building so luckily for our conspirators Roy Truly didn’t decide to place him in the other building.

We also have documented records of the numerous jobs Oswald applied to before that. How could conspirators have stopped any one of those companies giving him a job? They couldn’t of course. They had no control over where Oswald worked. So in the very, very short time after the route was announced they said “hey, what a piece of luck. The motorcade is now passing the TSBD and I know a guy who works there who we could set up.” They also must have had a crystal ball to have been able to have ordered the rifle before this and in the name Hidell and then managed to persuade the obliging Oswald to carry cards with this name on. How can anyone believe for a second that this was remotely possible?


How is it that the CIA, who claimed Oswald wasnt on their radar, had been tracked by the same organization. They knew about Mexico before Nov 22, they knew about New Orleansersion before Nov 22, ..and why would they care about some lone defector? Because he wasnt really that at all.

Oswald went to the Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City and kicked up a stink when trying to get a visa. Both embassies were bugged by the CIA. Of course the CIA lied and tried to cover their a***s. It doesn’t mean a conspiracy though.

Have you read the National Archive documents they have been releasing since early 2000's? Everyone should. Everyone who wants to discuss the case anyway.

The released documents that were going to blow open the case and prove a conspiracy……….yeah, that didn’t work out did it?

Oh, but we got a CIA document mentioning Oswald that everyone raved about. Until it was proven to have been a fake.

[Michael W Richards]

There was never to be any loose ends here. A lone gunman was the setup. Anything that contradicted that, like 4 shots taken at least, multiple direction shooters, conspiracy theories,... are all swept aside. IF the government had a role here, do you not think that they would manipulate any evidence that could backfire on them? The most glaring example is a bullet that could not have done what they suggested. There is no-one I know that believes that explanation. Apparently some do here, but I suspect thats not based on their ability to interpret, but a lack of desire to do so. The US governments clandestine departments lie to its citizens, and supervising bodies, all the time. They fabricate, they manipulate and they remove anything that contradicts their preferred storyline.

If that seems a tad jaded, it is. I see governments all around the world spin their activities so they shine in a more acceptable light, but remember one thing...the US has, and Im sure will again, assassinated people. Rebel leaders, muslim extremists, and in some cases, they fabricate information to justify their acts. Anyone hear of Iran-Contra? Weapons of Mass destruction used as an excuse to invade Iraq, Afganistan? Vietnam?They are not govered by a collective conscience, they have agendas.

I just read your rebuttal above. The Magic Bullet has been proven you say? Man o Man... I give. There is no point in rebutting something that lost. You know that bullet was found, with the tip undamaged, on Connally's stretcher.... right? You ask what if a shooter from the front landed shots in addition to Oswalds 3 casings? There wouldnt need to be shooter from the front if someone landed all three from behind. When you set up multiple angles it doesnt mean everyone fires, it means if someone misses there is still another chance from another angle. That shot from the front came when at least 1 from behind missed.

I cant do this thread anymore, its disheartening to see people simply refusing to see whats there. So...just buy your spoiled meat, I wont bother telling you that it looks obviously tainted. You get what you want...a belief that youd prefer. And damn the facts.

[Herlock Sholmes]

There was never to be any loose ends here. A lone gunman was the setup. Anything that contradicted that, like 4 shots taken at least, multiple direction shooters, conspiracy theories,... are all swept aside.

No Michael. There wouldn’t have been a situation with loose ends in the first place. Plans eliminate loose ends they don’t create them. You and no one else has an answer for this - why would they have a plan with a million things that could go wrong when a child could have come up with a more efficient and close to risk-free plan? Why? The only sensible answer is that they clearly wouldn’t have.

IF the government had a role here, do you not think that they would manipulate any evidence that could backfire on them?

No I don’t. They would have arranged beforehand that there was no need to do this. They wouldn’t have left themselves the ludicrously impossible tasks of setting up a corrupt autopsy (plus following ‘corrupt’ investigations) then having to fake photos and fake x-rays and control witnesses and set up the Tippit murder including around a dozen or more witnesses. It’s simply not even remotely plausible. It’s fantasy stuff. It just didn’t happen. Sadly the boring answer is true and conspiracy theorist just can’t do ‘boring.’ They see the sinister in everything.

The most glaring example is a bullet that could not have done what they suggested. There is no-one I know that believes that explanation. Apparently some do here, but I suspect thats not based on their ability to interpret, but a lack of desire to do so.

Your utterly wrong. I can point you to websites by numerous people who have researched the case for years who accept the single bullet theory. Physicists, university professor, authorities on ballistics. I’ll tell you what the problem is Michael, and I made the point on the other thread, conspiracy theorists only read conspiracy theorists work. I started by reading only conspiracy theorist books. Then I realised what nonsense was being written.

The US governments clandestine departments lie to its citizens, and supervising bodies, all the time. They fabricate, they manipulate and they remove anything that contradicts their preferred storyline.

Of course but it doesn’t mean that everything that they do or say is a lie. But that’s how conspiracy theorists tend to think I’m afraid.

If that seems a tad jaded, it is. I see governments all around the world spin their activities so they shine in a more acceptable light, but remember one thing...the US has, and Im sure will again, assassinated people. Rebel leaders, muslim extremists, and in some cases, they fabricate information to justify their acts. Anyone hear of Iran-Contra? Weapons of Mass destruction used as an excuse to invade Iraq, Afganistan? Vietnam?They are not govered by a collective conscience, they have agendas.

But they didn’t kill Kennedy. Not a chance.

I just read your rebuttal above. The Magic Bullet has been proven you say? Man o Man... I give.

I agree. You should give up. Oswald was guilty. It has been proven. All else is silliness and dishonesty and a disgraceful slur on the names of honest men.

There is no point in rebutting something that lost. You know that bullet was found, with the tip undamaged, on Connally's stretcher.... right?

Try reading the evidence Michael. The bullet was not undamaged. Simply repeating this untruth won’t make it true.

You ask what if a shooter from the front landed shots in addition to Oswalds 3 casings? There wouldnt need to be shooter from the front if someone landed all three from behind. When you set up multiple angles it doesnt mean everyone fires, it means if someone misses there is still another chance from another angle. That shot from the front came when at least 1 from behind missed.

What are you talking about? How the hell could a grassy knoll shooter know how many times the 6th floor gunman would hit or miss? Be serious. How could he know if a shot that hit Kennedy’s head was fatal? What if the bullet had caused a non-fatal wound but the GK gunman saw blood spray. He’d had to have fired. You’re being silly I’m afraid. The GK gunman is a nonsensical fantasy.

I cant do this thread anymore, its disheartening to see people simply refusing to see whats there. So...just buy your spoiled meat, I wont bother telling you that it looks obviously tainted. You get what you want...a belief that youd prefer. And damn the facts.

Try reading non-conspiracy work. You see conspiracy here. You see conspiracy in Berner Street. I see a pattern of thinking.

Oh, and typically, you avoid answering questions. Conspiracy theorists love asking them but they haven’t quite got the hand of directly answering one. Avoid, duck, change the subject.