JTR compared to JFK

[Fiver]

Connelly does not react physically when the shot that hit Kennedy and exited through his throat happens, he reacts a few seconds later when the final shot is taken. What does that mean? It means the Warren Commission determination that the shot that exited Kennedys throat was the same bullet that then hits Connelly....is wrong. The so called magic bullet theory.

The Zapruder film shows Connally reacting when JFK is hit in the throat. Unless God was shooting at him, Connally's leg wound could only be a deflection of the wrist hit. That angle means that the wrist hit came from the bullet that passed through Connally's torso first. The bullet that Connally's back was already tumbling before it hit Connally, meaning it had passed through something else.

The true magic bullets are the ones the conspiracy theorists claim.

[Fiver]

If they just intended for Oswald to be set up as the killer, then he was a great choice. The Pro Castro links, the CIA personelle links, the defection, the work location...it is possible he was just set up for the fall and someone else shot the gun from the 6th floor. Maybe he was a "patsy". He claimed he was.

If Oswald was a patsy:
* Why did Oswald try to kill Edwin Walker?
* Why did the Conspiracy contradict it's pwn narrative by using multiple shooters?
* Why wasn't Oswald found dead in the sniper's nest of a "self-inflicted" gunshot with his own pistol?
* Why did Oswald murder JD Tippet?
* Why did Oswald try to kill a police officer at the Texas Theater?
* Why wasn't Oswald killed resisting arrest?
* Why was Oswald allowed to speak to the press multiple times?

[Michael W Richards]

Oswald was not able to freely speak with the press during interrogations that lasted almost 12 straight hours, he only got a brief chance to say something when he was being moved from room to room. And what he said was "I didnt shoot anyone, and Im a patsy".

[c.d.]

And what he said was "I didnt shoot anyone, and Im a patsy".

Well that settles it for me.

c.d.

[Michael W Richards]

Did either of you illustrious critics look at the Zapruder tape and the specific frames I cited. I think not. Otherwise you might have learned something. Not surprising that you also buy the bs in this case too. IF youd looked, you would see that the good senator did not react as if he had been shot after Kennedy grabs his throat, the very premise that the Warren Commission took in their summation. The magic bullet. Its their explanation for why they say 3 shots were fired in total. They stated that bullet also caused the senators wounds. Clearly, as per the tape, it didnt. Which means that a 4th shot was taken, which means Oswald, if he shot anything that day, did not shoot all the rounds.

[GBinOz]

Did either of you illustrious critics look at the Zapruder tape and the specific frames I cited. I think not. Otherwise you might have learned something. Not surprising that you also buy the bs in this case too. IF youd looked, you would see that the good senator did not react as if he had been shot after Kennedy grabs his throat, the very premise that the Warren Commission took in their summation. The magic bullet. Its their explanation for why they say 3 shots were fired in total. They stated that bullet also caused the senators wounds. Clearly, as per the tape, it didnt. Which means that a 4th shot was taken, which means Oswald, if he shot anything that day, did not shoot all the rounds.

Quite correct Michael. Connolly stated that he was hit as he turned back from trying to see Kennedy. He was adamant that he was hit by a different bullet to Kennedy. Much is made of a short grimace shown in the frames in the 230's, but he continues to turn to the right and shows no distress at all, let alone a reaction to a shot through his body and wrist. I have watched this film, stabilised in slow motion and zoomed, dozens of times and IMO Connolly was hit around frame 290, as he was turning back to his left, and about a second before the first head shot.

Cheers, George

[Michael W Richards]

Quite correct Michael. Connolly stated that he was hit as he turned back from trying to see Kennedy. He was adamant that he was hit by a different bullet to Kennedy. Much is made of a short grimace shown in the frames in the 230's, but he continues to turn to the right and shows no distress at all, let alone a reaction to a shot through his body and wrist. I have watched this film, stabilised in slow motion and zoomed, dozens of times and IMO Connolly was hit around frame 290, as he was turning back to his left, and about a second before the first head shot.

Cheers, George

Thanks George for the support. When I first caught this I watched it over and over too, to make sure of what I believed I saw. The background on what happens with this tape is also quite interesting, once Zapruder hands it over for investigation that is. Changes are made to it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Personally I don’t want to get back into the JFK stuff but I’ll just say this……Lee Harvey Oswald was the most transparently, 100% provably, inarguably guilty human being that has ever lived. The evidence against him was an absolute Mount Everest that it would have been utterly physically impossible to have faked. The chances of his innocence just don’t exist. And the suggestion that a government level group with massive resources to hand would completely ignore employing a childishly simple, totally effective, almost 100% fool-proof plan, close to risk-free plan which would have required no post-event cover up in favour of the most insanely complex, 1001-things-could-go-wrong, leaving a 1000 free to blab plan is madness. If you defended a ripper theory using baseless calls of ‘fake’ and ‘forgery’ you would get laughed at but that’s exactly what has to be resorted to in defending Oswald. No crime in history has such a proven guilty suspect. None comes close. The man was a callous double murderer, totally unworthy of the tears that are shed over him and the efforts that are made to posthumously exonerate him. If a tenth of the evidence that was against Oswald existed against a ripper suspect we wouldn’t still be discussing the case.

As the hated (by conspiracy supporters) Vincent Bugliosi said…..you could take 75% of the evidence against Oswald and throw it out of the window and there would still be enough to find him guilty.

That’s me out.

[Michael W Richards]

The Zapruder film shows Connally reacting when JFK is hit in the throat. Unless God was shooting at him, Connally's leg wound could only be a deflection of the wrist hit. That angle means that the wrist hit came from the bullet that passed through Connally's torso first. The bullet that Connally's back was already tumbling before it hit Connally, meaning it had passed through something else.

The true magic bullets are the ones the conspiracy theorists claim.

I hope that you will revisit what you believe you saw, because as George confirmed, Connally is not hit by the bullet that exited JFK's throat. Watch the film slowed down, watch Connally. Youll see him react to the actual shot...which he said felt like he had been punched in the back,.. just before the head shot. Or even simultaneously for all intent and purpose. He bends in half, forward, when he reacts. Also since many of the documents have been declassified you might want to read his interview while in the hospital, he states that he was sure that he was hit with a different bullet than the one that hit Kennedy high, between the shoulder blades, and exited out his throat. That makes 4 shots. Oswald, (if he made the shots), could only have made 3 in that space of time, and only 3 casings were on the 6th floor. There was more than one shooter, its not a conspiracy theory, the evidence is recorded on that home movie.

[GBinOz]

Thanks George for the support. When I first caught this I watched it over and over too, to make sure of what I believed I saw. The background on what happens with this tape is also quite interesting, once Zapruder hands it over for investigation that is. Changes are made to it.

Hi Michael,

There are many anomalies in the film, the Cancellare comparison being undeniable.





If the ZF is examined it can be noted that the figure in the pick-up has been removed and replaced with a flat cover. WHY???
This discussion was just getting started on the JFK thread when it was closed.

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/social-chat/other-mysteries/10932-jfk-assassination-documents-to-be-released-this-year/page176#post810078

There are some links that may be of interest to you in my post # 2641.

Cheers, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

Those two look exactly the same to me George. The Zapruder film has been scrutinised by numerous experts and no anomalies have ever been found.

And of course we can add…why would the conspirators have gone for an assassination that required this level of post events action and cover up involving so many people (fakes and forgeries, corrupt autopsy etc) with the enormous risks involved when all that they needed was an anonymous, highly trained sniper, with the best rifle that money could by (forensically connected to no one) One shot, into a waiting car behind a building….gone? No need for ‘faked’ fingerprints or ‘faked’ orders or ‘faked’ films (including the risk of every other camera in DP that they simply couldn’t have guaranteed taking control of) second gunmen in incredibly unsuitable locations, autopsies ‘faked’ x-rays and photos ‘faked’ and a suspect that was being observed by the FBI and who had defected giving substance to the fear that the government wanted most to avoid…..that the USSR might have been involved. Then why add the totally pointless added risk of the Tippit murder. It just makes no sense.

Apart from the details, which can be disputed endlessly, we should look at the picture as a whole imo. And it’s beyond unbelievable. I’d say that it’s not impossible that Oswald might have had connections to the Cubans (they might have paid him or offered him a place to live post-assassination) but without having any influence over the assassination itself.

[Aethelwulf]

Those two look exactly the same to me George.

Yes I thought I was missing something. First image shows man sat in back van. Second shot seems to show...same man also sat in the back of van? I can't see any difference unless there is some other shot that hasn't been posted?

I like the title of this as well 'does the cancellare south knoll photo show a shooter in a pickup truck'? Only if you close your eyes and imagine one! Five poeople also seem to be looking directly at 'shooter'. The nonsense that comes out of these lot is something else.

[Michael W Richards]

Im not sure why individual observations are juxtaposed with other extraneous data like "theorys" and "conspiracies". What I initially suggested is one review of the Zapruder film from the point where JFK is not visible behind the interstate sign, and when he is visible again after passing the sign he is holding his throat. Thats the same bullet that the Warrren Commission concluded changed trajectory upon the exit and then caused all Connallys injuries. The famed Magic Bullet theory. In the film, it is plain to see...that when Kennedy is first seen holding his throat Connally has not yet been injured. He looks to his right trying to see what he heard, then tries to re-allign himself so he can see into the back seat..thats when he reacts to being shot at almost the same millisecond that Kennedy is shot in the head.

Forget trying to create arguments about who shot him and why, just review the film. When you do you will have to arrive at the conclusion that I did and George apparently did, the bullet that exited Kennedys throat was NOT the same bullet that hit Connally. Which means, there was at least 1 unrecorded bullet fired. That essentially ends the debate on one shooter, Oswald, (or whoever) couldnt and didnt fire all 4 shots. Thats it. You can accept that or not, just stop trying to argue the point with opinions on how trustworthy government agencies are or how the Warren report is clearly the most thorough investigation. For year the CIA claimed they knew nothing about Oswald at the time of the shooting, yet within an hour they were looking for him as the presidents assassin. And with recently declassified materials about the investigation released, you will see that the claim that Oswald was unknown to them is patently false. They knew about him.

[GBinOz]

Those two look exactly the same to me George. The Zapruder film has been scrutinised by numerous experts and no anomalies have ever been found.

They are the same. One is a zoom shot. I didn't show the Zapruder film shot because I thought it would be better if that was done by each person who was interested. Here is the direct comparison (colourised for clarity), but please check out the actual Zapruder footage.



You second sentence is not accurate. See here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCigDMyHisE&ab_channel=BradVeilleux

[GBinOz]

Forget trying to create arguments about who shot him and why, just review the film. When you do you will have to arrive at the conclusion that I did and George apparently did, the bullet that exited Kennedys throat was NOT the same bullet that hit Connally. Which means, there was at least 1 unrecorded bullet fired.

Hi Michael,

Actually my opinion is that Kennedy was hit in the back about the time he disappeared behind the road sign, and the throat shot came from the front, through the windscreen, just before he emerged from behind the sign.

Cheers, George