What 5 Questions Would You Like Answered?

[lynn cates]

cut pocket

Hello Neil.

"They wore pockets, drawn tight with string, around the waist."

Precisely. Annie's had been cut and rifled, as you say.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

things done in private

Hello (again) Trevor.

"If the items were in her pockets and she was going to lift her clothes up to have sex then surely they would likely as not fall out when the clothes were lifted up."

Here's a little experiment. Try putting on a dress (yeah, I know, I know--in private) and put material into a pocket. Lift same dress. You'll notice that the pocket's aperture is still oriented upwards.

And, of course, her pocket was not even that kind but held by a band across the waist and concealed underneath her dress.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

pockets and such

Hello Trevor. Thanks.

"Sadly we don't have a full list of all of Annie's clothing showing any cuts caused when she was stabbed as we do with Eddowes. That's why you can't say that the killer specifically cut the pockets etc."

But we DO have the inquest statement. And her pocket had been cut by someone and her belongings searched.

"Yes with Eddowes the killer did cut though her clothes but not to rifle her pockets."

Indeed. But they were rifled all the same. And her belongings were NOT neatly arranged.

"How does anything fall out of people's pockets? It happens all the time."

indeed. But this would have been a mass drop including large items.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Look at the time.

Hello DLDW. Thanks.

". . . the murderer could have thought the rings were of some importance to the victim then they might have been very valuable to the murderer.'

And the pocket?

"When people ask why she went the direction she did I tend to think it was for drink. That being one of the most likely options."

Where was it available at that hour? In Mitre sq?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

not savvy

Hello Rivkah. Thanks.

"He also wasn't terribly savvy, if he though someone with gold rings would be turning tricks in alleys."

Quite. Not to mention talking loudly outside a window.

Cheers.
LC

[Michael W Richards]

Hello DLDW. Thanks.

I believe that Annie's assailant was doing just that. Sadly, he had no idea what was valuable, thinking brass rings were gold.

Cheers.
LC

I tend to side with this argument as well Lynn, however, there were visits to pawn shops after this meeting that didn't reveal someone trying to pawn said rings. Surely if he thought they had value he would try to cash in on that. Which raises the possibility of trophies...perhaps in addition to the organs. I recall a story that stated Tumblety carried some cheap imitation gold rings in his vest pocket..noted only as an aside.

All the best

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Neil

Looks as if you were not wholly convinced.
God knows why.

Cheers

You are clearly not au fait with the ways of the world !

[Trevor Marriott]

They wore pockets, drawn tight with string, around the waste.

Not like pockets today....so no, there was no need to take items out of their pockets nor would they fall out.

I agree, the killer rifled her pockets, the evidence supports this.

What evidence ?


Monty

Well that's par for the course you contradicting anything I say you just cant help it can you ?

So now in 5 mins he even had time to rifle her pockets come on get real.

How do you exactly know what type of dress or pockets any of the victims had in their clothes in any event.

And besides the killer stabbed Eddowes and cut her from the waistband twice downwards and once across.

Take your blinkers off !

[DVV]

And this would be repeated with every client.

My goodness Trev, Eddowes was truly dumb wasnt she?

Simple answers huh?

Monty

Hi Neil

Looks as if you were not wholly convinced.
God knows why.

Cheers

[DVV]

Hello Abby. Eddowes soliciting immediately upon release from gaol? No food? No drink? No privy? Already in fear of being late?
LC

Hi Lynn

How could she buy food and drink without money, please ?
If she was hungry and thirsty, she had to find some quickly.
So what do you mean ?

Cheers

[Monty]

Not attempting to have it all ways. Were prostitutes in the habit of removing all of their belongings before providing services? Seems like a fine way to be robbed. It seems the simplest answer is that her murderer went through her belongings. It appears he took her rings from her fingers. Why not go through her pockets?

They wore pockets, drawn tight with string, around the waste.

Not like pockets today....so no, there was no need to take items out of their pockets nor would they fall out.

I agree, the killer rifled her pockets, the evidence supports this.

Monty

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Trevor.

Not attempting to have it all ways. Were prostitutes in the habit of removing all of their belongings before providing services? Seems like a fine way to be robbed. It seems the simplest answer is that her murderer went through her belongings. It appears he took her rings from her fingers. Why not go through her pockets?

[Monty]

Well you cant have it all ways either she put them on the ground or they fell out. If the items were in her pockets and she was going to lift her clothes up to have sex then surely they would likely as not fall out when the clothes were lifted up.


Why make an easy answer simple, when you can make a simple answer difficult but then again thats Ripperolgy.

And this would be repeated with every client.

My goodness Trev, Eddowes was truly dumb wasnt she?

Simple answers huh?

Monty

[Trevor Marriott]

On your first point, it seems like emptying your belongings before coetus an unlikely and impractical thing. How long did those encounters usually last I wonder? And why a neat pile? On your third point, weren't all the belongings she had all on the ground? Everything fell out? On your final point, two sides? Ha, we should be so lucky were there only two to contend with. Many blessings.

Well you cant have it all ways either she put them on the ground or they fell out. If the items were in her pockets and she was going to lift her clothes up to have sex then surely they would likely as not fall out when the clothes were lifted up.


Why make an easy answer simple, when you can make a simple answer difficult but then again thats Ripperolgy.

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Lynn

Hello Trevor. Thanks.

"The neat pile suggests she could have put them there herself intending to pick them up after engaging in her sexual activity."

But why take them out in the first place? And if the killer did it, surely he was mentally unstable?

"No evidence to show the killer cut her pocket. Best not jump to the wrong conclusions."

Whom cut it then? Surely not Annie?

Sadly we don't have a full list of all of Annies clothing showing any cuts caused when she was stabbed as we do with Eddowes. Thats why you cant say that the killer specifically cut the pockets etc.

"As to Kate how do we know that the items found on the floor did not simply fall out of her pockets when she fell to the ground or when the killer lifted up her clothes."

The killer cut through her clothes. Unlike Polly and Annie. And how does a mustard tin merely fall out?

Yes with Eddowes the killer did cut though her clothes but not to rifle her pockets.

How does anything fall out of peoples pockets it happens all the time

Cheers.
LC