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  • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
    ... I think PC Smith saw the killer...
    I'm finding it increasingly difficult to conceive of our man as someone who knows he's been seen and then kills anyway.

    I can't make it work, Miller's Court aside (possibly)...

    M.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mark J D View Post

      I'm finding it increasingly difficult to conceive of our man as someone who knows he's been seen and then kills anyway.

      I can't make it work, Miller's Court aside (possibly)...

      M.
      There is every possibility that he knew he'd been seen on the evening of the 'double event'. A sketch - purportedly - of the Whitechapel killer was published by the Daily Telegraph on October 6 based almost certainly on the evidence of Matthew Packer which suggested that he had seen Jack's face - so well that Jack wrote a threatening letter to him warning him off continuing to help the police in their enquiries:

      You though yourself very clever I reckon when you informed the police. But you made a mistake if you though I dident see you Now I know you know me and I see your little game, and I mean to finish you and send your ears to your wife if you show this to the police or help them if you do I will finish you. It no use your trying to get out of my way Because I have you when you don’t expect it and I keep my word as you soon see and rip you up. Yours truly
      Jack the Ripper


      The letter could obviously have been a hoax, but it's interesting that the writer claimed "Now I know you know me".

      Ike
      Iconoclast
      Author of the brilliant Society's Pillar
      Link: HistoryvsMaybrick – Dropbox
      Author of the even more brillianter Society's Pillar 2025 (available in all good browsers soon-ish)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post
        ... There is every possibility that he knew he'd been seen on the evening of the 'double event'. A sketch - purportedly - of the Whitechapel killer was published by the Daily Telegraph on October 6 ... [etc]...
        Thanks for this!

        My point, though, is still that in the absence of any motivation for killing a specific woman at a specific time, all our man has to do upon 'being seen' is *walk away* -- whereupon the need, inter alia, to write threatening letters to nosey greengrocers simply *evaporates*... Nothing happens; no-one sees anything; there's nothing to remember; and he simply tries again with a different woman five blocks away...

        -- Anyone got a copy of that sketch published by the Daily Telegraph on October 6?? I'd still like to see it! :-)

        Bests,

        M.
        Last edited by Mark J D; 05-09-2022, 03:39 PM.

        Comment


        • Hi Ike,

          I wondered if the threatening letter was aimed at the 'Hungarian' [Schwartz], whose story appeared in the Star and described the man he saw assaulting Stride.

          Packer may have sold grapes to Stride's killer, but he didn't witness this man mistreating her in any way - quite the opposite if he was treating her to the grapes.

          Love,

          Caz
          X
          "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mark J D View Post

            Thanks for this!

            My point, though, is still that in the absence of any motivation for killing a specific woman at a specific time, all our man has to do upon 'being seen' is *walk away*, and the need, inter alia, to write threatening letters to nosey greengrocers simply *evaporates*... Nothing happens; no-one sees anything; there's nothing to remember; and he simply tries again with a different woman five blocks away...

            -- Anyone got a copy of that sketch published by the Daily Telegraph on October 6?? I'd still like to see it! :-)

            Bests,

            M.
            It's probably available in more than Maybrick-related textbooks, but here's a Maybrick-related one. What makes this version weak is that Harrison (?) used a photograph of Michael Maybrick as a comparator, confusing it with James.

            I'll see if I can find a photograph of the twin sketches (one with and one without a moustache).

            Cheers,

            Ike

            Click image for larger version

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            Iconoclast
            Author of the brilliant Society's Pillar
            Link: HistoryvsMaybrick – Dropbox
            Author of the even more brillianter Society's Pillar 2025 (available in all good browsers soon-ish)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by caz View Post
              Hi Ike,

              I wondered if the threatening letter was aimed at the 'Hungarian' [Schwartz], whose story appeared in the Star and described the man he saw assaulting Stride.

              Packer may have sold grapes to Stride's killer, but he didn't witness this man mistreating her in any way - quite the opposite if he was treating her to the grapes.

              Love,

              Caz
              X
              Hi Caz,

              Yes, quite possibly. I'm sure I've read elsewhere that the letter may have gone to Joseph Lawende.

              Personally, I'd have developed chronic double incontinence if I got such a missive, so perhaps we should look for any witness who did not testify?

              Ike
              Iconoclast
              Author of the brilliant Society's Pillar
              Link: HistoryvsMaybrick – Dropbox
              Author of the even more brillianter Society's Pillar 2025 (available in all good browsers soon-ish)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post
                ... I'll see if I can find a photograph of the twin sketches (one with and one without a moustache)...
                Thanks everso! This one is great! :-)

                Bests,

                M.

                Comment


                • Hi Ike,

                  Of course, if the killer did use the paper bag containing black grapes to transport Eddowes's apron piece and organs safely away from Mitre Square, Trev could add more conjecture to his sanitary napkin theory.

                  I'm thinking fondly of Nobby's Piles.

                  Love,

                  Caz
                  X
                  "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post

                    Hi Caz,

                    Yes, quite possibly. I'm sure I've read elsewhere that the letter may have gone to Joseph Lawende.

                    Personally, I'd have developed chronic double incontinence if I got such a missive, so perhaps we should look for any witness who did not testify?

                    Ike
                    Didn't Schwartz flee incontinently from Berner Street? Maybe he ate some grapes too and they loosened him up!

                    Pip pip.

                    Love,

                    Caz
                    X
                    "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mark J D View Post

                      Thanks everso! This one is great! :-)

                      Bests,

                      M.
                      Click image for larger version

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                      Check out Jack the Ripper | Karen T. Taylor, Facial Images (kttfacialimages.com)

                      Ike
                      Iconoclast
                      Author of the brilliant Society's Pillar
                      Link: HistoryvsMaybrick – Dropbox
                      Author of the even more brillianter Society's Pillar 2025 (available in all good browsers soon-ish)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by caz View Post

                        Didn't Schwartz flee incontinently from Berner Street? Maybe he ate some grapes too and they loosened him up!

                        Pip pip.

                        Love,

                        Caz
                        X
                        You do make me laugh, Caz!

                        Pip pip - I love it! (And yet I don't know why!)

                        Ike
                        Iconoclast
                        Author of the brilliant Society's Pillar
                        Link: HistoryvsMaybrick – Dropbox
                        Author of the even more brillianter Society's Pillar 2025 (available in all good browsers soon-ish)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by caz View Post
                          Hi Ike,

                          I'm thinking fondly of Nobby's Piles.

                          Love,

                          Caz
                          X
                          For the younger Ripperologists amongst us who may be thinking Nobby must have been a key witness who saw Jack tie his shoelace with his teeth at 12.37am in Berner Street, et cetera, let me dissuade you of that view:

                          Click image for larger version

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                          Ike
                          Iconoclast
                          Author of the brilliant Society's Pillar
                          Link: HistoryvsMaybrick – Dropbox
                          Author of the even more brillianter Society's Pillar 2025 (available in all good browsers soon-ish)

                          Comment


                          • Still my favourite, by the way ...

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                            Iconoclast
                            Author of the brilliant Society's Pillar
                            Link: HistoryvsMaybrick – Dropbox
                            Author of the even more brillianter Society's Pillar 2025 (available in all good browsers soon-ish)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post

                              There is every possibility that he knew he'd been seen on the evening of the 'double event'. A sketch - purportedly - of the Whitechapel killer was published by the Daily Telegraph on October 6 based almost certainly on the evidence of Matthew Packer which suggested that he had seen Jack's face - so well that Jack wrote a threatening letter to him warning him off continuing to help the police in their enquiries:

                              You though yourself very clever I reckon when you informed the police. But you made a mistake if you though I dident see you Now I know you know me and I see your little game, and I mean to finish you and send your ears to your wife if you show this to the police or help them if you do I will finish you. It no use your trying to get out of my way Because I have you when you don’t expect it and I keep my word as you soon see and rip you up. Yours truly
                              Jack the Ripper


                              The letter could obviously have been a hoax, but it's interesting that the writer claimed "Now I know you know me".

                              Ike
                              Hi Ike,

                              On checking the dates, I see that the threatening letter was dated October 6, and the Star interview with Schwartz was published five days earlier, on October 1.

                              The wording of the letter tends to suggest the author was referring to what Schwartz told the Star man:

                              'Information which may be important was given to the Leman Street police yesterday by an Hungarian concerning this murder... It seems that he had gone out for the day and his wife had expected to move, during his absence, from their lodgings in Berner Street, to others in Backchurch Lane.'

                              '6 Oct 1888
                              You though your-self very clever I reckon
                              when you informed the police But you
                              made a mistake if you though I dident
                              see you now I know you know me and
                              I see your little game, and I mean
                              to finish you and send your ears to
                              your wife if you show this to the police
                              or help them if you do I will finish
                              you. It no use your trying to get out
                              of my way Because I have you when
                              you don't expect it and I keep my
                              word as you soon see and rip you
                              up Yours truly
                              Jack the Ripper'

                              [vertically down left side] 'You see I know your
                              address.
                              '

                              Assuming Schwartz was indeed the intended recipient of this nastiness, he'd have needed someone to translate it for him if he was ever shown it, as he had no English. But if that happened I could see how frightened he'd have been for himself and his wife. If the author had read the early inquest reports in The Times, he would not have found the 'Hungarian' telling his story there. Would this have reassured him, if he was indeed the killer, or made him angry that the police appeared to be protecting a vital witness from being publicly identified, provoking him into firing off that letter?

                              If it was a hoax, it was a particularly insightful one, but a rotten joke to play on this witness to Stride's assault.

                              Love,

                              Caz
                              X
                              "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post

                                For the younger Ripperologists amongst us who may be thinking Nobby must have been a key witness who saw Jack tie his shoelace with his teeth at 12.37am in Berner Street, et cetera, let me dissuade you of that view:

                                Click image for larger version

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Views:	90
Size:	137.1 KB
ID:	785583

                                Ike
                                Ooh, me arse grapes!
                                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                                Comment

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