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  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

    Sorry Abby, I’d demoted myself to second person to have mentioned it but I’m now demoting myself to third.
    well since you also see the logical explanation i forgive you. but your going to have to demote yourself once again to fourth because Harry D also said it before you. lol
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

    Comment


    • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

      So is Mary Kelly in this series
      Yes she was murdered and her body mutilated

      www.trevormarriott.co.uk

      Comment


      • Open questions: How is the graffito anti-Jewish? And how is the writing supposed to point to the apron or vice versa?

        Of wait! The answers are in this thread, among others, buried somewhere.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

          well since you also see the logical explanation i forgive you. but your going to have to demote yourself once again to fourth because Harry D also said it before you. lol
          Bottom of the pile again Abby
          Regards

          Herlock Sholmes

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post

            We have a series of murders where the victims all had their throats cut and their abdomens mutilated those are the only common denominators to link them.

            Interruption maybe in one case, but not all those who never had any attempts made on their bodies to remove organs.

            As to trophy taking why would he take a uterus from Eddowes when he allegedly took one from Chapman doesnt make sense?

            www.trevormarriott.co.uk
            Why would the killer take the same organ twice? As the killer was targeting the abdomen early on, the reproductive area (i.e. the uterus) held an interest to him. We can only speculate on the exact nature of that. Whether it was a means to dehumanise the victims or a paraphilia in absence of a sexual motive.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Harry D View Post

              Why would the killer take the same organ twice? As the killer was targeting the abdomen early on, the reproductive area (i.e. the uterus) held an interest to him. We can only speculate on the exact nature of that. Whether it was a means to dehumanise the victims or a paraphilia in absence of a sexual motive.
              But all we have are allegedly 2 uteri and one kidney taken from only two victims out of possibly 8. I would hardly call that dehumanising all the victims especially as those organs only relate to two victims out of a possible 8 victims

              www.trevormarriott.co.uk

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post

                Yes she was murdered and her body mutilated

                www.trevormarriott.co.uk
                Organs removed too dont forget .

                So are you suggesting [and i know were going over old ground again ] that the person that killed Kelly did not kill Nicols,Chapman and Eddowes ?
                'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

                  Organs removed too dont forget .

                  So are you suggesting [and i know were going over old ground again ] that the person that killed Kelly did not kill Nicols,Chapman and Eddowes ?
                  Thats an option to carefully consider based on the fact and the evidence that no organs were taken from Kelly, then either it was a different killer, or the same killer, but that killer did not remove the organs from Chapman and Eddowes, and that the motive for these murder was nothing more than murder and mutilation.

                  www.trevormarriott.co.uk


                  Comment


                  • One question at at time , So is it a ''fact'' that organs were removed from Kellys body at the murder scene.?
                    'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post

                      Thats an option to carefully consider based on the fact and the evidence that no organs were taken from Kelly, then either it was a different killer, or the same killer, but that killer did not remove the organs from Chapman and Eddowes, and that the motive for these murder was nothing more than murder and mutilation.

                      www.trevormarriott.co.uk

                      The suggestion that no organs were removed from Kelly isn’t a ‘fact’ Trevor. It’s based on an interpretation of wording and the memory of Reid.

                      Seriously though, what are the chances that, over such a short period of time and in such a small area, 4 women of the same class (ie women who had to resort to prostitution whether full or part-time as a means of survival) were all killed and suffered horrific mutilations, and they weren’t killed by the same man? The odds against this must be minute at best. Who can know what might have been going through a serial killers twisted mind at the time of each murder? Can we really expect exactly the same behaviour each time? Not only do we have to consider what was going on in the killers mind but we have to consider the circumstances at the scene the time and what he might have seen or heard that might have caused him to change his plans. Nichols is a perfect example. It can’t be impossible that he heard the approach of Lechmere which caused him to curtail his activities and scarper.

                      So we have to ask which is the likelier? Different killers murdering and abdominally mutilating prostitutes in a small area over a 3 month period. Or we have the same deeply disturbed killer, subject to unimaginable thoughts and facing various circumstances at each crime scene?

                      I don’t think it’s a particularly difficult choice Trevor.
                      Regards

                      Herlock Sholmes

                      Comment


                      • The simple fact is if there were multiple killers it all coalesced around a certain time period in a certain area. For instance can anyone point to precedent or post murders committed in the area in a similar manner? It is fairly clear that one man was responsible and the fact a former Police officer can't seem that is disturbing to say the least.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                          The suggestion that no organs were removed from Kelly isn’t a ‘fact’ Trevor. It’s based on an interpretation of wording and the memory of Reid.

                          Seriously though, what are the chances that, over such a short period of time and in such a small area, 4 women of the same class (ie women who had to resort to prostitution whether full or part-time as a means of survival) were all killed and suffered horrific mutilations, and they weren’t killed by the same man? The odds against this must be minute at best. Who can know what might have been going through a serial killers twisted mind at the time of each murder? Can we really expect exactly the same behaviour each time? Not only do we have to consider what was going on in the killers mind but we have to consider the circumstances at the scene the time and what he might have seen or heard that might have caused him to change his plans. Nichols is a perfect example. It can’t be impossible that he heard the approach of Lechmere which caused him to curtail his activities and scarper.

                          So we have to ask which is the likelier? Different killers murdering and abdominally mutilating prostitutes in a small area over a 3 month period. Or we have the same deeply disturbed killer, subject to unimaginable thoughts and facing various circumstances at each crime scene?

                          I don’t think it’s a particularly difficult choice Trevor.
                          I am not sugesting they were not all killed by the same man because that is a very strong possibilty. But of course the kelly murder is slightly different in as much as she was the only victim over a long period of time of the murders that was killed indoors, now the killer may have got lucky in finding a victim who had a room and despite what you say I belive Reid is a credible witness and in 1896 he was not subjected to memory failure because if you read the article he is so precise aboout the Kelly murder and the events surrounding the murder, and thats because he was head of Whitechapel CID and went to the crime scene and the post mortem so there is no reason whatsoever to not believe him, after all you and others are quick to belive in other police officers statements, opinions, and memoirs from back then why not Reid thats becasue if you accept Reid then that causes a major problem for you and others who belive the killer took organs from Chapman and Edowes because if he did do that then a big question has to be asked why not from Kelly when he could have taken numerous organs at his leisure?

                          On a side note the female reproductive organs were some of the most sought after organs for medical research

                          www.trevormarriott.co.uk

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post

                            But all we have are allegedly 2 uteri and one kidney taken from only two victims out of possibly 8. I would hardly call that dehumanising all the victims especially as those organs only relate to two victims out of a possible 8 victims

                            www.trevormarriott.co.uk
                            Different attacks at different times in different locations with different and sometimes fluid scenarios. This was a killer attacking and murdering women predominantly on the streets- he was heading for the hangman's noose if caught. No two experiences would have been the same for him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post

                              I am not sugesting they were not all killed by the same man because that is a very strong possibilty. But of course the kelly murder is slightly different in as much as she was the only victim over a long period of time of the murders that was killed indoors, now the killer may have got lucky in finding a victim who had a room and despite what you say I belive Reid is a credible witness and in 1896 he was not subjected to memory failure because if you read the article he is so precise aboout the Kelly murder and the events surrounding the murder, and thats because he was head of Whitechapel CID and went to the crime scene and the post mortem so there is no reason whatsoever to not believe him, after all you and others are quick to belive in other police officers statements, opinions, and memoirs from back then why not Reid thats becasue if you accept Reid then that causes a major problem for you and others who belive the killer took organs from Chapman and Edowes because if he did do that then a big question has to be asked why not from Kelly when he could have taken numerous organs at his leisure?

                              On a side note the female reproductive organs were some of the most sought after organs for medical research

                              www.trevormarriott.co.uk
                              ''if you accept Reid then that causes a major problem for you and others who belive the killer took organs from Chapman and Edowes because if he did do that then a big question has to be asked why not from Kelly when he could have taken numerous organs at his leisure?''

                              WHY???


                              If you had the chance to ask Kellys killer that question, just think of how many different reasons he could tell you why he didnt take any organs with him or decided to leave them behind. Your to hung up on the mind set of a killer, and what he should,could or didnt do . Thats dangerous where jtr is concerned. Just because he took organs away from the murder scene of Eddowes and Chapman and not Kelly changes nothing
                              Last edited by FISHY1118; 05-13-2022, 12:52 PM.
                              'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                                The suggestion that no organs were removed from Kelly isn’t a ‘fact’ Trevor. It’s based on an interpretation of wording and the memory of Reid.

                                Seriously though, what are the chances that, over such a short period of time and in such a small area, 4 women of the same class (ie women who had to resort to prostitution whether full or part-time as a means of survival) were all killed and suffered horrific mutilations, and they weren’t killed by the same man? The odds against this must be minute at best. Who can know what might have been going through a serial killers twisted mind at the time of each murder? Can we really expect exactly the same behaviour each time? Not only do we have to consider what was going on in the killers mind but we have to consider the circumstances at the scene the time and what he might have seen or heard that might have caused him to change his plans. Nichols is a perfect example. It can’t be impossible that he heard the approach of Lechmere which caused him to curtail his activities and scarper.

                                So we have to ask which is the likelier? Different killers murdering and abdominally mutilating prostitutes in a small area over a 3 month period. Or we have the same deeply disturbed killer, subject to unimaginable thoughts and facing various circumstances at each crime scene?

                                I don’t think it’s a particularly difficult choice Trevor.
                                its actually more ludicrous than that. In trevors theory-its (at least) two killers, both post morten mutilating and removing organs(but not taking the organs away), one of which was some German dude who wasnt even in the country at the time, and yet another person removing and taking away organs later. its laughable.
                                Last edited by Abby Normal; 05-13-2022, 01:06 PM.
                                "Is all that we see or seem
                                but a dream within a dream?"

                                -Edgar Allan Poe


                                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                                -Frederick G. Abberline

                                Comment

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