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Patterns and Co-incidences

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  • #31
    Originally posted by etenguy View Post

    I'm sure someone has beaten a path to Frederick as Ripper before now - but I don't have a suspect theory.
    Yeh, maybe.
    I don't recall anyone pushing it though. In fact if you use the contents of the letter as circumstantial evidence there's more going for him than many others I could name
    Regards, Jon S.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

      Yeh, maybe.
      I don't recall anyone pushing it though. In fact if you use the contents of the letter as circumstantial evidence there's more going for him than many others I could name
      Yeah, it's partly why I started the thread. Some coincidences/patterns seem so unlikely that one feels they must be of significance - yet most are probably not. Yet hidden amongst them there very well may be a piece of evidence.

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      • #33
        Two victims were killed by the entrance of a set of double gates.
        Three if you include Stride.
        3 out of 5 victims seems a little coincidental when you consider all the quiet alleys and corners available in E1.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Yabs View Post
          Two victims were killed by the entrance of a set of double gates.
          Three if you include Stride.
          3 out of 5 victims seems a little coincidental when you consider all the quiet alleys and corners available in E1.
          Hi Yabs - I'm not sure which three victims you mean - I assume it is the first three victims. If so, I'm not sure Annie Chapman was killed near double gates. I think only Stride was killed within a yard that had gates at its entrance. May just be my lack of knowledge of the murder sites.

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          • #35
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            Originally posted by etenguy View Post

            Hi Yabs - I'm not sure which three victims you mean - I assume it is the first three victims. If so, I'm not sure Annie Chapman was killed near double gates. I think only Stride was killed within a yard that had gates at its entrance. May just be my lack of knowledge of the murder sites.
            Hi Eten.
            Not necessarily within the gates but next to. specifically, Nicholls, Eddowes and Stride
            Last edited by Yabs; 05-21-2021, 10:19 PM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Yabs View Post
              Hi Eten.
              Not necessarily within the gates but next to. specifically, Nicholls, Eddowes and Stride
              Ah yes, I see.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post
                Dear Boss says nothing about blaming Jews - the author claims to be down on whores - so why assume a connection between it and the GSG?
                I don't 'assume' a connection between Dear Boss and the GSG. I just don't rule out the possibility. Big difference.

                But Dear Boss was written and posted before the double event, so why would it mention blaming Jews for getting in the way in Berner Street?

                That interpretation ignores the tense of the GSG ...

                The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing

                "See what they made me do", would require something like this ...

                The Juwes are the men that are not blamed for nothing

                The real GSG is a prediction, not a statement of cause and effect.
                Aren't you taking the wording a wee bit too literally?

                If the killer drops the apron piece and writes the message in the wake of the second murder that night, he could simply be saying that the Jews will be the men to blame for this one because they got in the way of his plans. Nobody will yet have been blamed for the Mitre Square murder, but the killer is saying that he will not be taking the blame.
                Last edited by caz; 05-24-2021, 12:25 PM.
                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


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                • #38
                  Originally posted by caz View Post

                  I don't 'assume' a connection between Dear Boss and the GSG. I just don't rule out the possibility. Big difference.
                  I was really asking why someone else should consider it a serious possibility

                  But Dear Boss was written and posted before the double event, so why would it mention blaming Jews for getting in the way in Berner Street?
                  That might depend on someone coming out the side door, perhaps due to hearing something unusual, and causing the Ripper to flee.

                  AF: “Don’t you know that a murdered woman is lying in the yard?” Gilyarovsky breathlessly called out. At first the two comrades did not want to believe him. “What, don’t you believe me?” Gilyarovsky quickly asked: “I saw blood.”

                  I guess the blaming Jews for getting in the way in Berner Street interpretation, should be considered a serious possibility.

                  Aren't you taking the wording a wee bit too literally?

                  If the killer drops the apron piece and writes the message in the wake of the second murder that night, he could simply be saying that the Jews will be the men to blame for this one because they got in the way of his plans. Nobody will yet have been blamed for the Mitre Square murder, but the killer is saying that he will not be taking the blame.
                  So one issue is how it could be supposed that Dutfield's Yard would have been chosen as a place to do his work.
                  Another issue is that if you're happy with the logic, are you also happy to agree that the Jews are/were to blame for there being two murders that night, rather than one? Of course not - that would be totally unfair. So in that sense, no one is going to agree with this laying of blame, so why would he bother?
                  Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post
                    That might depend on someone coming out the side door, perhaps due to hearing something unusual, and causing the Ripper to flee...
                    What's that got to do with my point that the Dear Boss letter was written and posted before the events in Berner Street, explaining why the author - whoever it was - didn't mention anything about blaming the Jews??

                    So one issue is how it could be supposed that Dutfield's Yard would have been chosen as a place to do his work.
                    Well I for one have repeatedly suggested that Dutfield's Yard was a terrible choice as a murder location, ripper or not. My position has long been that Stride gave her killer no choice but to attack her there or leave her alive. He could hardly have forced her bodily to go with him elsewhere without risking a lot worse than three feeble squeals.

                    Another issue is that if you're happy with the logic...
                    I'm not - see above.

                    ...are you also happy to agree that the Jews are/were to blame for there being two murders that night, rather than one? Of course not - that would be totally unfair. So in that sense, no one is going to agree with this laying of blame, so why would he bother?
                    No, of course it would be unfair and totally unjustifiable, but killers like Jack - if he did write the GSG - are well known for their capacity for blaming anyone and everyone but themselves for what they do. They can also be oblivious to the fact that most reasonable people won't buy it. The Yorkshire Ripper tried to blame his victims, whether he was 'cleaning the streets' of prostitutes, or of women going out alone wearing short skirts. Of course it didn't work, but it didn't stop him trying it on.

                    In Jack's case, he knew he had plenty of allies across the classes and in positions of authority, who were so prejudiced against Jews at the time of the murders, that to associate them with blame in the same sentence, in any context, would hit the spot.
                    "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by caz View Post
                      Aren't you taking the wording a wee bit too literally?
                      Many people do. It was probably some schoolkid struggling with his grammer.

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