Patterns and Co-incidences

[Scott Nelson]

Aren't you taking the wording a wee bit too literally?

Many people do. It was probably some schoolkid struggling with his grammer.

[caz]

That might depend on someone coming out the side door, perhaps due to hearing something unusual, and causing the Ripper to flee...

What's that got to do with my point that the Dear Boss letter was written and posted before the events in Berner Street, explaining why the author - whoever it was - didn't mention anything about blaming the Jews??

So one issue is how it could be supposed that Dutfield's Yard would have been chosen as a place to do his work.

Well I for one have repeatedly suggested that Dutfield's Yard was a terrible choice as a murder location, ripper or not. My position has long been that Stride gave her killer no choice but to attack her there or leave her alive. He could hardly have forced her bodily to go with him elsewhere without risking a lot worse than three feeble squeals.

Another issue is that if you're happy with the logic...

I'm not - see above.

...are you also happy to agree that the Jews are/were to blame for there being two murders that night, rather than one? Of course not - that would be totally unfair. So in that sense, no one is going to agree with this laying of blame, so why would he bother?

No, of course it would be unfair and totally unjustifiable, but killers like Jack - if he did write the GSG - are well known for their capacity for blaming anyone and everyone but themselves for what they do. They can also be oblivious to the fact that most reasonable people won't buy it. The Yorkshire Ripper tried to blame his victims, whether he was 'cleaning the streets' of prostitutes, or of women going out alone wearing short skirts. Of course it didn't work, but it didn't stop him trying it on.

In Jack's case, he knew he had plenty of allies across the classes and in positions of authority, who were so prejudiced against Jews at the time of the murders, that to associate them with blame in the same sentence, in any context, would hit the spot.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

I don't 'assume' a connection between Dear Boss and the GSG. I just don't rule out the possibility. Big difference.

I was really asking why someone else should consider it a serious possibility

But Dear Boss was written and posted before the double event, so why would it mention blaming Jews for getting in the way in Berner Street?

That might depend on someone coming out the side door, perhaps due to hearing something unusual, and causing the Ripper to flee.

AF: “Don’t you know that a murdered woman is lying in the yard?” Gilyarovsky breathlessly called out. At first the two comrades did not want to believe him. “What, don’t you believe me?” Gilyarovsky quickly asked: “I saw blood.”

I guess the blaming Jews for getting in the way in Berner Street interpretation, should be considered a serious possibility.

Aren't you taking the wording a wee bit too literally?

If the killer drops the apron piece and writes the message in the wake of the second murder that night, he could simply be saying that the Jews will be the men to blame for this one because they got in the way of his plans. Nobody will yet have been blamed for the Mitre Square murder, but the killer is saying that he will not be taking the blame.

So one issue is how it could be supposed that Dutfield's Yard would have been chosen as a place to do his work.
Another issue is that if you're happy with the logic, are you also happy to agree that the Jews are/were to blame for there being two murders that night, rather than one? Of course not - that would be totally unfair. So in that sense, no one is going to agree with this laying of blame, so why would he bother?

[caz]

Dear Boss says nothing about blaming Jews - the author claims to be down on whores - so why assume a connection between it and the GSG?

I don't 'assume' a connection between Dear Boss and the GSG. I just don't rule out the possibility. Big difference.

But Dear Boss was written and posted before the double event, so why would it mention blaming Jews for getting in the way in Berner Street?

That interpretation ignores the tense of the GSG ...

The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing

"See what they made me do", would require something like this ...

The Juwes are the men that are not blamed for nothing

The real GSG is a prediction, not a statement of cause and effect.

Aren't you taking the wording a wee bit too literally?

If the killer drops the apron piece and writes the message in the wake of the second murder that night, he could simply be saying that the Jews will be the men to blame for this one because they got in the way of his plans. Nobody will yet have been blamed for the Mitre Square murder, but the killer is saying that he will not be taking the blame.

[etenguy]

Hi Eten.
Not necessarily within the gates but next to. specifically, Nicholls, Eddowes and Stride

Ah yes, I see.

[Yabs]

Hi Yabs - I'm not sure which three victims you mean - I assume it is the first three victims. If so, I'm not sure Annie Chapman was killed near double gates. I think only Stride was killed within a yard that had gates at its entrance. May just be my lack of knowledge of the murder sites.

Hi Eten.
Not necessarily within the gates but next to. specifically, Nicholls, Eddowes and Stride

[etenguy]

Two victims were killed by the entrance of a set of double gates.
Three if you include Stride.
3 out of 5 victims seems a little coincidental when you consider all the quiet alleys and corners available in E1.

Hi Yabs - I'm not sure which three victims you mean - I assume it is the first three victims. If so, I'm not sure Annie Chapman was killed near double gates. I think only Stride was killed within a yard that had gates at its entrance. May just be my lack of knowledge of the murder sites.

[Yabs]

Two victims were killed by the entrance of a set of double gates.
Three if you include Stride.
3 out of 5 victims seems a little coincidental when you consider all the quiet alleys and corners available in E1.

[etenguy]

Yeh, maybe.
I don't recall anyone pushing it though. In fact if you use the contents of the letter as circumstantial evidence there's more going for him than many others I could name

Yeah, it's partly why I started the thread. Some coincidences/patterns seem so unlikely that one feels they must be of significance - yet most are probably not. Yet hidden amongst them there very well may be a piece of evidence.

[Wickerman]

I'm sure someone has beaten a path to Frederick as Ripper before now - but I don't have a suspect theory.

Yeh, maybe.
I don't recall anyone pushing it though. In fact if you use the contents of the letter as circumstantial evidence there's more going for him than many others I could name

[etenguy]

Ah, I can almost smell a new suspect entering the ring - Frederick Best was Jack the Ripper!

I'm sure someone has beaten a path to Frederick as Ripper before now - but I don't have a suspect theory.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Cheers Abby.

The psychology is spot on too, isn't it? Stride 'squealed a bit', as if the killer saw her as a sow, an animal to be hunted.

Broad Shoulders and Stride - the hunter and the hunted. Spot on analogy, you reckon?

[Abby Normal]

and down the NBFN rabbit hole we go. its even the avatar lol

[NotBlamedForNothing]

yes. and who but the killer would know about stride "squealed a bit" as in yelled out but not too loudly as a witness claimed? thats three things the writer of dear boss/saucy jack got right-starting again soon, cutting the ear off, and a victim squealing a bit.

number one squealed a bit when I threw her down on the footway
yet when I picked her up and pulled her into the yard and forced her onto the ground, she was as quiet as a mouse!

[Wickerman]

....... And if we believe that the Dear Boss and Saucy Jack communications were not written by the murderer - there is the also the coincidence in relation to Eddowes ear lobe being cut off. As you say it almost makes you believe that the killer knew what was in those communications whether or not he was the author (so someone who knew the writer or someone who had access either from the police or the central news bureau). Or it was just a coincidence.

Ah, I can almost smell a new suspect entering the ring - Frederick Best was Jack the Ripper!