Is there a 'final solution' holy grail for the JTR murders out there?

[TheCuriousCat]

Yes, but if the general public should ever reach such a consensus, interest in searching for the Ripper will dry up. Books sales will plummet and the money will disappear as well. Ripperology will be reduced to an Ancient Aliens level of credibility.

Those that refuse to accept the slam dunk evidence will be force to form a conspiracy theory against the the 'indisputable' evidence. The Ripper Universe will move from searching for the killer to disproving the 'evidence.' That could go on for decades.

We know who Deep Throat is now. People still buy books on Watergate.

[Christian]

I can recall from many moons ago one researcher believing that he’d found a photograph of Kosminski. Turned out that he hadn’t though. The Chapman photo surfaced so I guess that it’s not impossible that photos of the other victims in life exist somewhere. I’ve always though it tantalising that, amongst someone’s collection of old photographs, they might be looking at a photograph of Mary Nichols or Martha Tabram without knowing it.

Yes Herlock we can dream also years ago was a “millers court “ photo album from 1888 said to exist be in collectors hands & the plans-sketch for millers court was said to be done by city police as with mitre square we can live in hope

[Spider]

If you take any sufficiently long piece of writing, and apply various, unpredictable rules for "decoding" it, you can convince yourself that it says whatever you want it to. That's why people are continually saying Nostradamus predicted everything from Pearl Harbor, to the Twin Towers, to Princess Diana. And that is why they will never cease finding predictions of things to come in the future. You need to apply a little common sense. Ask yourself, "What would count as a strike against this hypothesis?" Or "Is this method capable of self-correction?" If you went through my journals with the same methods, looking for evidence that I was JTR, you would undoubtedly find it.
"Oh look, he was thrilled to get his first pen knife! He bought a book on anatomy! He even wrote a report on the kidney for biology class! He has an interest in Time Travel! It is him!"

Absolutely agree with you on that, but we're not talking the 'Bible Code' here, we're looking at short letters here, some with very little text and a very simple code base. The letters sent by Maybrick total around 18 and contain over 100 clues, some very simple others slightly more ingenious. The letters were little more than vehicles for his clues, those odd turns of phrase which now make sense. I think that most with some intellect will get it but probably not your average bears.

[APerno]

We know who Deep Throat is now. People still buy books on Watergate.

Yes! -- But what I was saying is that the 'search for the Ripper' would stop, but the books on 'disproving the evidence' would sell. -- And of course books on the now exposed killer would sell quite well, as well. But new theories and new suspects would disappear, those books would no longer sell; the direction of the research would be altered, forced by public opinion. Maybe not good thing, but it (slam dunk evidence) would dominate in such a manner that it would change the Ripper Universe.


I.e. the books on Watergate now, are of a different ilk than they were before Felt outed himself. A new direction of research; that's why they still sell.

[TheCuriousCat]

Yes! -- But what I was saying is that the 'search for the Ripper' would stop, but the books on 'disproving the evidence' would sell. -- And of course books on the now exposed killer would sell quite well, as well. But new theories and new suspects would disappear, those books would no longer sell; the direction of the research would be altered, forced by public opinion. Maybe not good thing, but it (slam dunk evidence) would dominate in such a manner that it would change the Ripper Universe.


I.e. the books on Watergate now, are of a different ilk than they were before Felt outed himself. A new direction of research; that's why they still sell.

I see what you are saying. Yes, it would definitely change things.

[TheCuriousCat]

Absolutely agree with you on that, but we're not talking the 'Bible Code' here, we're looking at short letters here, some with very little text and a very simple code base. The letters sent by Maybrick total around 18 and contain over 100 clues, some very simple others slightly more ingenious. The letters were little more than vehicles for his clues, those odd turns of phrase which now make sense. I think that most with some intellect will get it but probably not your average bears.

I love codes. Let me show you my own little codes.

"The problem is that too many people readily dismiss it without having read it, let alone looked closely at it."

"I think that most with some intellect will get it but probably not your average bears."

= Ad hominem = Not a valid argument = Safe to dismiss without further investigation.

"...very simple code base...others slightly more ingenious"

= Internally inconsistent = Safe to dismiss without further investigation.

[Spider]

Ho hum

[Fisherman]

Obviously, once the "message" that is pointed to cannot be agreed upon by those who look at it as being a real message, the holy grail is not very close at hand. Its only when more or less everybody agrees that a message HAS been left by the killer that we should accept that we've in all probability bagged the grail. And I don't categorically rule out that this may happen, since I genuinely think that there is a very large chance that the killer we are chasing was a person who wanted recognition for what he did.

[TheCuriousCat]

Ho hum

Stunning rebuttal. Well put.

[Scott Nelson]

Obviously, once the "message" that is pointed to cannot be agreed upon by those who look at it as being a real message, the holy grail is not very close at hand. Its only when more or less everybody agrees that a message HAS been left by the killer that we should accept that we've in all probability bagged the grail. And I don't categorically rule out that this may happen, since I genuinely think that there is a very large chance that the killer we are chasing was a person who wanted recognition for what he did.

I agree with you Christer, except for the part about wanting recognition for what he did. Maybe, maybe not.

[Spider]

Stunning rebuttal. Well put.

Pleasure

[mpriestnall]

Hi Martyn,

Here's my five penn'orth—

JtR identity — don't even bother trying. Definitely nobody thus far named.
MJK identity — possible, if we stop kidding ourselves the victim was a girl from Limerick.
Links between JtR and any victims — none direct.
Motive — certainly not money, probably political.
Did anyone else have knowledge of the murders at the time — yes, those in authority.

Regards,

Simon

Thanks Simon.

Here's my five penn'orth—

JtR identity —don't even bother trying. Definitely nobody thus far named.

I delayed responding to your post because I'm unable to say publically
what I truly would like to say about JTR's identity or rather my candidate.

So I won't!

Agreed not yet named.

MJK identity —possible, if we stop kidding ourselves the victim was a girl from Limerick.

Some backstory seems to be corroborated though. I wonder if it would be worthwhile
someone starting a thread recapping MJK's backstory, using any recent research, listing
which points are corroborated (or seem most plausible) and which points are totally unsupported?

Links between JtR and any victims —none direct.

I'm not so sure...

Motive —certainly not money, probably political.

As a front runner only, I believe the motive was personal.

The people were well connected and maybe the "establishment" instituted
a cover-up, perhaps partly out of embarrasment as much as loyalty.

I don't dismiss the political or "state level" motives though.

I believe at least 2 of the victims were deliberately targeted.

Did anyone else have knowledge of the murders at the time — yes, those in authority.

Definitely.

Regards,

Martyn

[Simon Wood]

Hi Martyn,

Please don't delay responding to my post because you're unable to say publicly what you truly would like to say about JTR's identity or rather your candidate.

Come on, spit it out!

Regards,

Simon

[Busy Beaver]

IF the murderer ever was to be honestly and properly identified, then great care would need to be taken so as not to offend living or deceased people who have been involved with the case over the 130 plus years. There have been a number of people out there who seem to have taken great pride that they may be "related" to the Ripper, or are pretty convinced that the Ripper is their ancestor. As too who the Ripper really is, well I do not know. If we can find a picture of Aaron Kosminski, find the real MJK and find out why Duritt lost his job at his school, it might take us a little further down the who-is -the Ripper-path.

[John Wheat]

IF the murderer ever was to be honestly and properly identified, then great care would need to be taken so as not to offend living or deceased people who have been involved with the case over the 130 plus years. There have been a number of people out there who seem to have taken great pride that they may be "related" to the Ripper, or are pretty convinced that the Ripper is their ancestor. As too who the Ripper really is, well I do not know. If we can find a picture of Aaron Kosminski, find the real MJK and find out why Duritt lost his job at his school, it might take us a little further down the who-is -the Ripper-path.

I disagree with your points about Kosminski or Druitt. Neither seems like the Ripper to me. However if we could uncover MJK's real identity it would be useful in developing the case.