Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is there a 'final solution' holy grail for the JTR murders out there?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is there a 'final solution' holy grail for the JTR murders out there?

    Reading the posts on The diary, old hoax or new? thread got me thinking whimsically:

    Is there a final solution holy grail for the JTR murders out there, that can be found?

    Is there any one piece of evidence that can be discovered today that would create an absolute answer to the JTR enigma?

    No doubt the obvious answer is a diary or journal but it is hard to believe the killer would be so generous as to give us such an easy answer.

    Putting aside the slam-dunk proof of a (an unlikely) diary or written confession coming to light, is there anything else that could be discovered today that could create a final solution?

    I tried to conjure one up, this is the best I could do, and it's kind of silly:

    Imagine a housing project demolition revealing, hidden in a wall, a steel locked box. In the box is a dried uterus and two brass rings. Next to the box is found a classic leather hog butcher's sheath containing work knives. A census lists the resident, at the time of the murders, as [insert name here]. [insert name here] then appears on a subsequent year's asylum roll, 1890, with an entrance date of late November 1888. [insert name here] dies in asylum in 1896, never having been released.

    Is that enough? Would that end the controversy?

    Is there any piece of evidence or preponderance of evidence, that can ever close this case?

    Is there any longer a possible final solution to the Ripper murders, or has this become an endless game of right brain solitaire like Myst?

    IMO we're not going to get a written confession; that's wishful thinking, and that hope only sets us up for more hoax diaries; so is there any other possibility we can hope for.





  • #2
    Maybe if something could be confirmed to be Macnaghten’s “Private Information”
    G U T

    There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

    Comment


    • #3
      Very thought provoking post Aperno, your scenario would come very close to the final nail in the JTR coffin . Except for one thing if i may , what if say a man and his wife who lived all alone at the address just happen to take in a lodger for a few months ,and he hid his ill gotten treasure in the wall with out their knowing ? And of course he gives a fake name at the asylum or vice versa , i dont know just thinking out loud as to the different possibilities . If this was the case would we still arguing who jtr was ?,

      Comment


      • #4
        Over on the t'other place, Sean Crundall suggested an optimistic note, saying we are on the "cusp of great things".

        http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=366833, though he didn't really expand upon this suggestion.

        I'm also in the optimists camp and believe JTR's true identity will be revealed, but I don't believe it's likely that any concrete, definite evidence
        will come to light, but one can never predict the future. With the continual availablity of new sources, through digitisation, genealogical records
        coming online, etc, who knows?

        The following is my holy grail of Ripperology:

        1. JTR's identity.
        2. MJK identity.
        3. Any links between JTR and any victims.
        4. Motive
        5. Did anyone else have knowledge of the murders at the time: Accomplice(s), those in the authority, family.

        I believe the only best evidence we are likely to get is a series of indirect evidences, a kind of too many coincidences and connections that add up to a semi-compelling weight of circumstational evidence. This is my approach towards my candidate.

        Martyn
        Last edited by mpriestnall; 07-30-2019, 07:54 AM.
        "The one who waits with prudence will be rewarded at the right time."

        Comment


        • #5
          Re your second point, Martyn, I'd be happy with finding the real Mary Jane Kelly; we have surprisingly detailed biographies for the other victims, but poor Mary still languishes in obscurity.

          As far as the killer's concerned, I think the most we can hope for is feasible new candidates. Any conclusive physical evidence is likely to have been bulldozed into oblivion.
          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

          Comment


          • #6
            I have to agree with Sam on this one. The further in time that we move away from the crimes the less likely that the final nail in the coffin will reveal itself. It’s certainly not impossible of course but I tend to think that the best that we can perhaps hope for would be new evidence to potentially strengthen existing suspects or, as Sam said, that there are new candidates nominated (preferably candidates with merit of course). Finding the real MJK would certainly be a kind of Holy Grail achievement. I’d also love to see confirmed photographs of Abberline and Kosminski. I’d love to have seen what Pearly Poll looked like too but I think it unlikely in the extreme that I ever will.

            To add to my wish list here’s a call to all authors or potential authors out there. I’m sure that we’ are all looking forward to Adam Wood’s Swanson biography so isn’t it about time that we had well researched biographies on Warren, Anderson and Macnaghten? Anyone up for it?
            Regards

            Herlock






            "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

            Comment


            • #7
              I own a biography of Warren, by Colin Macdonald. Called "WARREN!" (exclamation mark included), and is subtitled "The Bond of Brotherhood", from which you can guess that it focuses heavily on his Masonic life, although his involvement in the JTR case gets a dedicated chapter.

              Unfortunately, it's no longer in print. Some 2nd-hand copies seem to be available here and there, but I don't think it's ever been available on Amazon; indeed, I bought it direct from the publisher when it was published in 2007.

              It's a pretty decent book as I recall and, even if it weren't, it's the only full biography of Warren that we have.




              (Edit: When I said it focuses on Warren's Masonic life, I don't mean that this is a "woo-woo", Steven Knight-type book. It's a serious bio.)
              Last edited by Sam Flynn; 07-30-2019, 10:06 AM.
              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

              "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

              Comment


              • #8
                It would take a miraculous piece of evidence, like an item belonging to the one of the victims. But how would you even prove it belonged to them in the first place? And even if you could prove that someone murdered one victim, there would still be too many unanswered questions to close the case.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I can`t think of any piece of evidence that could surface to nail the case
                  All we can do is analyse what details and facts we do have to create the clearest picture of events as possible

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by APerno View Post
                    Reading the posts on The diary, old hoax or new? thread got me thinking whimsically:

                    Is there a final solution holy grail for the JTR murders out there, that can be found?

                    Is there any one piece of evidence that can be discovered today that would create an absolute answer to the JTR enigma?

                    No doubt the obvious answer is a diary or journal but it is hard to believe the killer would be so generous as to give us such an easy answer.

                    Putting aside the slam-dunk proof of a (an unlikely) diary or written confession coming to light, is there anything else that could be discovered today that could create a final solution?

                    I tried to conjure one up, this is the best I could do, and it's kind of silly:

                    Imagine a housing project demolition revealing, hidden in a wall, a steel locked box. In the box is a dried uterus and two brass rings. Next to the box is found a classic leather hog butcher's sheath containing work knives. A census lists the resident, at the time of the murders, as [insert name here]. [insert name here] then appears on a subsequent year's asylum roll, 1890, with an entrance date of late November 1888. [insert name here] dies in asylum in 1896, never having been released.

                    Is that enough? Would that end the controversy?

                    Is there any piece of evidence or preponderance of evidence, that can ever close this case?

                    Is there any longer a possible final solution to the Ripper murders, or has this become an endless game of right brain solitaire like Myst?

                    IMO we're not going to get a written confession; that's wishful thinking, and that hope only sets us up for more hoax diaries; so is there any other possibility we can hope for.



                    hi AP
                    I doubt well ever find anything that proves conclusively who the killer is, but I remain optimistic. But it would taking something big along the lines of what you mentioned. like a discovery in an attic containing things like a knife, belongings of victims, news paper cuttings confession etc.

                    for me personally though -if it was discovered that one of the viable known suspects ever wrote something in which they wrote the word juwes then that would probably be enough for me.
                    "Is all that we see or seem
                    but a dream within a dream?"

                    -Edgar Allan Poe


                    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                    -Frederick G. Abberline

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I wouldn't confine it to the known suspects, Abby. What if we discovered some writings of Jim Scroggs, Spitalfields cane-maker, and they turned out to contain the word "Juwes"? That said, this would only identify Jim Scroggs as a potential author of the Goulston Street Graffito, not necessarily the Ripper. So I'd want more evidence than that.
                      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                        I own a biography of Warren, by Colin Macdonald. Called "WARREN!" (exclamation mark included), and is subtitled "The Bond of Brotherhood", from which you can guess that it focuses heavily on his Masonic life, although his involvement in the JTR case gets a dedicated chapter.

                        Unfortunately, it's no longer in print. Some 2nd-hand copies seem to be available here and there, but I don't think it's ever been available on Amazon; indeed, I bought it direct from the publisher when it was published in 2007.

                        It's a pretty decent book as I recall and, even if it weren't, it's the only full biography of Warren that we have.




                        (Edit: When I said it focuses on Warren's Masonic life, I don't mean that this is a "woo-woo", Steven Knight-type book. It's a serious bio.)
                        The only thing that I can see online Sam is an ebook version for $77. One to keep a lookout for though.
                        Regards

                        Herlock






                        "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I imagine there is still lots of bits and bobs out there relating to the case in boxes and in attics. I am sure files and official police photographs were probably carried off as momentous back in the day. Maybe some collectors are sitting on some really interesting stuff or more likely someone has something but no idea what it actually is or what significance it has. Whether there is anything out there that would could crack the case, I rather doubt it, it would have to be something pretty significant to quieten the naysayers. We live in hope.

                          Question? Would we all quickly lose interest if we knew who Jack was?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                            The only thing that I can see online Sam is an ebook version for $77. One to keep a lookout for though.
                            I saw that one - a bit steep! However, there are other ebook versions available for $9.99 at the link below. I'd not heard about Smashwords before, but it's evidently a genuine company for authors to self-publish their books.

                            https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/14353
                            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                              I own a biography of Warren, by Colin Macdonald. Called "WARREN!" (exclamation mark included), and is subtitled "The Bond of Brotherhood", from which you can guess that it focuses heavily on his Masonic life, although his involvement in the JTR case gets a dedicated chapter.

                              Unfortunately, it's no longer in print. Some 2nd-hand copies seem to be available here and there, but I don't think it's ever been available on Amazon; indeed, I bought it direct from the publisher when it was published in 2007.

                              It's a pretty decent book as I recall and, even if it weren't, it's the only full biography of Warren that we have.




                              (Edit: When I said it focuses on Warren's Masonic life, I don't mean that this is a "woo-woo", Steven Knight-type book. It's a serious bio.)
                              Does the book address the events of the Second Boer War? It seems controversy followed the man about.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X