Accusations of a Ripper "cabal" (Moved from another thread)

[PaulB]

Stewart
Thank you for your concern but dont worry about me being on the outside its great you can see and hear so much more, all those friendly and smiling faces.

There is so much more to find on the outside, sometimes when you least expect it and from sources you would have never imagined.

I hope that by you and Paul getting up early in the morning to post on here is not upsetting your paper rounds

More platitudes. Don't you realise how silly they make you look? Just answer the question.

[Trevor Marriott]

As one poster on the thread from which this discussion originated has said "This thread does not cover itself in glory".

Personally, and while I have at times found people's choice of verbal admonishments fantastically amusing, I don't think that this kind of thread does our cause any service. If we wish to be accepted as a legitimate science or field of study, then we do ourselves no favours with a thread like this.

I'm only 26, but at your ages, some of you men should know better.

Raoul

I should mention that admin contacted me yesterday as I was the member who opened the petition thread. There had been concerns that posts were being made off topic to which I agreed.

In the light of that I asked that the thread be closed down.They refused that request and split it to start up a separate thread on the cartel. I personally feel that this thread had detirioated and will continue to do so because of the egostistcal pig headed attitude of certain posters. I think it would be better for all concerned if the cartel thread was also closed down

[Raoul's Obsession]

I should mention that admin contacted me yesterday as I was the member who opened the petition thread. There had been concerns that posts were being made off topic to which I agreed.

In the light of that I asked that the thread be closed down.They refused that request and split it to start up a separate thread on the cartel. I personally feel that this thread had detirioated and will continue to do so because of the egostistcal pig headed attitude of certain posters. I think it would be better for all concerned if the cartel thread was also closed down

or if people simply stopped posting to it.

[Trevor Marriott]

The British always feel sorry for the underdog, but let's not forget that this particular underdog has been a bully, strutting around the school-yard and throwing out reckless accusations and insinuations.

My my the gods are upset again today. I hope you havent laid awake all night worrying about this. You should chill out relax enjoy your twilight years all this huffing and puffing you do, you will give yourslelf a coronary.

[Trevor Marriott]

or if people simply stopped posting to it.

Well either way I wanted it to cease but by making a separte thread which really has been dominated by a small minority, I have to include myself in that it is just encouraging the personal conflicts to continue.

I hope that common sense will now prevail

[PaulB]

My self importance there is only one person who is so full of his own self importance and that sadly is you.

Yes, yes. We've heard it all before. It's never you, it's always someone else.

I think you will find everyone "does" no about the existence of a cartel it has been clear for some time now.

You probably think the moon is made of cream cheese too. What you think doesn't matter a jot, it's what you can demonstrate that matters.

Now what questions I choose to answer or not answer, and when and if I choose to answer is determined by me and not because you or Monty throw constant childish and abusive comments in my direction.

Interesting. You can call people members of a cartel, but when asked to substantiate your fantasy you claim it is up to you when and whether you do so.

As to cartel membership well if you say there is no cartel why are you and your sidekick Monty getting so hot under the collar about it.

I'll tell you why. Because you repeatedly make claims, often at the expense of others, which you can't substantiate. When called upon to do so, you duck and dive and use every naive little trick you can think of in an effort to dodge the issue, as your posts here clearly demonstrate. So you are being asked to actually substantiate the existence of this cartel garbage you have been witlessly wittering on about for weeks. And you won't. Because you can't.

But seeing as I am really nice person I will tell you what I will do as a show of goodwill. I will post the names of cartel members if you post The Aberconway Version of The MM and Dr Davies Forensic report.

Oh dear, do you really think that's clever? You know, it is sadly obvious to everyone where your credibility is, and that sort of response is just pulling the chain. There isn't a cabal, Trevor. Have the balls to admit it.

[PaulB]

My my the gods are upset again today. I hope you havent laid awake all night worrying about this. You should chill out relax enjoy your twilight years all this huffing and puffing you do, you will give yourslelf a coronary.

Still no answers. Just crap.

[PaulB]

Well either way I wanted it to cease but by making a separte thread which really has been dominated by a small minority, I have to include myself in that it is just encouraging the personal conflicts to continue.

I hope that common sense will now prevail

I can understand why you would want to close a thread which is embarrassingly asking you to substantiate a claim you have made but which you quite clearly can't, and it is equally painful to all concerned to watch you wriggling on the end of the hook. You can end it all but substantiating the existence of this cartel that has the power and the influence to dictate its wishes to the administrators of this site, get you banned, and bring Ally here to attack you, and do pretty much all else...

[PaulB]

As one poster on the thread from which this discussion originated has said "This thread does not cover itself in glory".

Personally, and while I have at times found people's choice of verbal admonishments fantastically amusing, I don't think that this kind of thread does our cause any service. If we wish to be accepted as a legitimate science or field of study, then we do ourselves no favours with a thread like this.

I'm only 26, but at your ages, some of you men should know better.

Raoul

I agree with you 100% and as someone who has tried and to some extent has succeeded in bringing a degree of maturity and seriousness to Ripper studies, I am deeply conscious of how this cat-scratching is a less than edifying spectacle. On the other hand, don't overlook the things Trevor has said, don't overlook the way he has twisted the words of others in an effort to diminish their reputations, don't overlook what he's said about Chris, Keith, Martin, Stewart, and other people whose hard work and generosity over two decades or more has given much to this subject. And don't underestimate how potentially damaging the insinuations of theft by a former police detective can be to the reputation and income of a professional researcher. Now, Trevor claims that there is a powerful Ripperological cartel who, as said, can even dictate to and influence the administrators of this site and Forums. All he's been asked to do is substantiate that claim. That's all.

[Stewart P Evans]

True

The British always feel sorry for the underdog, but let's not forget that this particular underdog has been a bully, strutting around the school-yard and throwing out reckless accusations and insinuations.

True, I guess it's a case of reaping what he has sown.

His aggressive stance has won him no friends and actually defeated the object he wished to achieve, i.e. seeing publication on these boards of the 'Aberconway version'.

[Trevor Marriott]

I can understand why you would want to close a thread which is embarrassingly asking you to substantiate a claim you have made but which you quite clearly can't, and it is equally painful to all concerned to watch you wriggling on the end of the hook. You can end it all but substantiating the existence of this cartel that has the power and the influence to dictate its wishes to the administrators of this site, get you banned, and bring Ally here to attack you, and do pretty much all else...

I dont have to substantiate anything to you. The facts, the postings the constant ramblings by you and others all supporting each other lays testament to the claim. I have seen it others have seen it.

You are sadly alienating yourself and losing the respect others had for you but you cant see it. Stop the bullly boy tactics you adopt on here, stop trying to force you own views down the throats of new posters who come here and soon go because of you attitude towards them.

I have nothing more to say on this issue now and will not enter into any further discussion on this topic. So if you want to continue with your ramblings and name calling etc go ahead if to makes you happy. I am sure you will you always like to have the final say.

[Jonathan H]

Rubbish!

Trevor

You are becoming a very reliable source in that everything you write is the reverse of the truth.

Your bombastic attacks on people, projecting your own flaws, are just so much rubbish -- but this latest post about Paul is pointedly upside-down.

Paul Begg has been nothing but publicly and privately encouraging and helpful of many people's work, including my own without agreeing with one single aspect of my [provisional] conclusions (except perhaps that Sir Melville Macnaghten has been unfairly caricatured by some -- eg. Cornwall -- as an affable bumbler, and thus my work provides a necessary corrective, but that's about it).

So much for a 'cartel', or even a hegemonic opinion, or a lack of academic rigour, or intellectual alienation and/or bullying -- as our debates are civil, productive, and even fun.

[Trevor Marriott]

Trevor

You are becoming a very reliable source in that everything you write is the reverse of the truth.

Your bombastic attacks on people, projecting your own flaws, are just so much rubbish -- but this latest post about Paul is pointedly upside-down.

Paul Begg has been nothing but publicly and privately encouraging and helpful of many people's work, including my own without agreeing with one single aspect of my [provisional] conclusions (except perhaps that Sir Melville Macnaghten has been unfairly caricatured by some -- eg. Cornwall -- as an affable bumbler, and thus my work provides a necessary corrective, but that's about it).

So much for a 'cartel', or even a hegemonic opinion, or a lack of academic rigour, or intellectual alienation and/or bullying -- as our debates are civil, productive, and even fun.

Thats you opinion which you are entitled to give

[PaulB]

I dont have to substantiate anything to you. The facts, the postings the constant ramblings by you and others all supporting each other lays testament to the claim. I have seen it others have seen it.

You are sadly alienating yourself and losing the respect others had for you but you cant see it. Stop the bullly boy tactics you adopt on here, stop trying to force you own views down the throats of new posters who come here and soon go because of you attitude towards them.

I have nothing more to say on this issue now and will not enter into any further discussion on this topic. So if you want to continue with your ramblings and name calling etc go ahead if to makes you happy. I am sure you will you always like to have the final say.

There you go again, dodging the question. You have made accusations about me on a public fora and therefore you do have to substantiate them if I ask you to, or you do if you want to retain any credibility. And none of your silly and obvious attempts to attribute your own behaviour to me is going to alter the fact that you aren't substantiating a damned thing. So, please do trot off and offer no further discussion on this topic. We'll hear no more of this cartel rubbish from you and that'll be perfect.

Trevor

You are becoming a very reliable source in that everything you write is the reverse of the truth.

Your bombastic attacks on people, projecting your own flaws, are just so much rubbish -- but this latest post about Paul is pointedly upside-down.

Paul Begg has been nothing but publicly and privately encouraging and helpful of many people's work, including my own without agreeing with one single aspect of my [provisional] conclusions (except perhaps that Sir Melville Macnaghten has been unfairly caricatured by some -- eg. Cornwall -- as an affable bumbler, and thus my work provides a necessary corrective, but that's about it).

So much for a 'cartel', or even a hegemonic opinion, or a lack of academic rigour, or intellectual alienation and/or bullying -- as our debates are civil, productive, and even fun.

Thank you, Jonathan. I also worked with Patricia Cornwell for a while. I'm just a tart at heart.

[Monty]

Raoul,

What a pathetic weasel you truly are. You come on here, making demands and claims which you have no knowledge nor expertise of.

You know nothing, and you are making a fool of yourself. You obviously are in cahoots with Trevor in an attempt to hide the truth about him*


See my point? When the boots on the other foot eh?

Stewart, Paul, Martin, Keith et al have all made significant contributions to the field. Now you may or may not agree with their findings, but to state they are part of a secret organisation created to prevent the 'truth', besmirch reputations and character, is completely and utterly disrepectful. Its spitting on the work of those shoulders we all stand on.

Sorry mate, but I've had enough. You simply cannot behave that way and expect others just to take it on the chin.

Its peoples hard earned reputations here.

Trevor,

I bet you want it closed. As is often the case with a bully. They soon run when you stand up to them.

Again, have you evidence of a cartel/cabal/ old boys club and its negative influence?

Why am I asking? Really, I mean, I'm due in Whitechapel today. I should be there, in the sun, having a few beers and a great time with great company.

You'll keep Trevor.

Monty


* That passage was an example of how some posts can effect. Its not how I truly think about Raoul, who has made some real great contributions.

So please Raoul, I did not mean a word of that paragraph.