E Petitions and Ripper Files and papers

[Trevor Marriott]

Trevor,

The trouble with you paul is that you have no sense of humour

You have made many a surly, stupid statement on these boards, but the above is a gross libel. Say what one might about Paul -- and you have certainly pushed the limits -- to deny that he has a rich and facile sense of humor is either a mindless insult or indicates a serious lack of understanding what the term means on your part.

Don.

Well a serious lack of understanding thats rich coming from you. How ever you have the cheek to come out with that when you yourslef have upset more then enough posters on here and on JTR forums with your arrogant know it all attitude.

This thread is now detiriating into personal conflicts which is not what it was set up for i would ask that all the persons who seem to want to make this personal desist. You have all made your various points quite clear and the petitions are not going to change. So lets see what happens.

[Supe]

Trevor,

The trouble with you paul is that you have no sense of humour

You have made many a surly, stupid statement on these boards, but the above is a gross libel. Say what one might about Paul -- and you have certainly pushed the limits -- to deny that he has a rich and facile sense of humor is either a mindless insult or indicates a serious lack of understanding what the term means on your part.

Don.

[mariab]

Obviously that includes the Chief Constable's Register. Whether it also includes any actual files in MEPO 38 I don't know.

I'm under the impression that it does include MEPO 38, Chris.

Actually, it's interesting that when I looked at the entries for MEPO 38 in the National Archives catalogue three years ago (http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.p...ount=44</span>) there were descriptions and dates for only 48 of the 182 files. Now there appear to be only a small number without descriptions and dates, though the ones with descriptions aren't necessarily open as I assumed then.

Might I inquire when was the last time that someone had a look at these? I can ask at another occasion, in a PM.

On the contrary, in the practical world perfection is too much to hope for, and we have to decide all the time whether to support things we're not 100% happy with. Obviously that's a personal decision we all have to make for ourselves.

That's exactly how I see it myself.

Just trying to be constructive (which is perhaps doomed from the outset), I wonder if it's known what the cost of a copy of the complete redacted version would be. I imagine that there would be people willing to sit and do the searching, if copies could be provided.

Problem is, Chris, I finally saw a couple of the redacted pages during the recent conference, and there are hardly any names left not covered by ink in there. But I'm sure you would know how to proceed against this problem? Comparing the redacted ones to Clutterbuck might not be of help, as I'm under the impression that he didn't discuss the Whitechapel murders investigation.

[Jason]

Hi,

It might be helpful to observe at this point that since, as Stewart has mentioned, no civil servant, even a hypothetical one, is going to have to deal with the petition until it acquires 100,000 signatures, nobody at the official level is likely to be greatly vexed by the question of how good the wording is at any time in the near future. 2012 is a leap year, so, taking into account the fact that the petition has 366 days to reach its target, it needs a little over 273 signatures a day. Obviously, it's presently off the pace. A quick glance at other petitions on the UK government website in question suggests to me that the modal number of signatures gained by e-petitions organised in this way is, in fact, 1.

Regards,

Mark

so in that case its doing bloody well......the recent Hillsbrough one is an example that needs to be aimed for !

[Jason]

Hi Jason!

You're right there, mate. Good fun, though, ennit!

Love
Carol

P.S. I'm now goin' to 'ave a look at the perdition meself.

some might say so !

[m_w_r]

Hi,

It might be helpful to observe at this point that since, as Stewart has mentioned, no civil servant, even a hypothetical one, is going to have to deal with the petition until it acquires 100,000 signatures, nobody at the official level is likely to be greatly vexed by the question of how good the wording is at any time in the near future. 2012 is a leap year, so, taking into account the fact that the petition has 366 days to reach its target, it needs a little over 273 signatures a day. Obviously, it's presently off the pace. A quick glance at other petitions on the UK government website in question suggests to me that the modal number of signatures gained by e-petitions organised in this way is, in fact, 1.

Regards,

Mark

[Carol]

think its fair to say that this thread does not come under the "covers itself in glory" category !!

Hi Jason!

You're right there, mate. Good fun, though, ennit!

Love
Carol

P.S. I'm now goin' to 'ave a look at the perdition meself.

[PaulB]

havent been around long enough on here to know what has gone on before.....but as an outsider i hazard a guess it aint going to be resolved by me appointing myself as "Switzerland" !!

No, your observation was fair enough. Squabbles are not especially edifying, but, alas, you'll find them in Trevor's wake on pretty much every thread he's contributed too. This is rather more serious because it's about research, something to which Trevor takes a somewhat unique approach, and whether or not this petition stands a cat in hell's chance of achieving anything. As said, if it does, great. If it doesn't, it's maybe an opportunity thrown away, and no matter how much Trevor talks of cartels, egos, theories, boats sinking, clocks ticking, seaside homes, or other rubbish, he's not going to change that. And that's sad.

[Trevor Marriott]

Sadly, there is a certain inevitability about that when twaddle about cartels, seaside homes, and wanting to protect egos and theories starts to be mentioned, as it always does when Trevor has no reasoned argument to offer. This thread should be about whether or not the petition, as phrased, is likely to achieve anything, and, if it isn't, whether anything can be done to rescue it, not about Trevor's daft notions about Stewart and myself.

No it shouldnt the thread was started by me to bring to the attention of members two e petitions which had been started by two other parties it was you and Stewart who have attempted to destroy it in your inimitable way.

[Trevor Marriott]

There is no cartel and your insistence otherwise, along with the rest of your silly, childish comments, does nothing for your credibility, or your reasoning, such as it is, and the petition will nosedive whether I pour scorn on it or not. I sincerely hope it doesn't as I'm intrigued to see what's in the ledgers and other files too, but, as said, I think it is too unfocused and imprecise to achieve anything and that it is therefore a lost opportunity. You can think otherwise, it probably serves your self-publicity machine to do so.

The trouble with you paul is that you have no sense of humour

and if you were more polite and helpful and less arrogant towards others perhaps you could be a part of the publicity machine you refer to

[Jason]

havent been around long enough on here to know what has gone on before.....but as an outsider i hazard a guess it aint going to be resolved by me appointing myself as "Switzerland" !!

[PaulB]

and you answered those criticisms with eloquent reasoning, however it has now descended beneath ground level and is continuing to dig.

Just my observation !

Sadly, there is a certain inevitability about that when twaddle about cartels, seaside homes, and wanting to protect egos and theories starts to be mentioned, as it always does when Trevor has no reasoned argument to offer. This thread should be about whether or not the petition, as phrased, is likely to achieve anything, and, if it isn't, whether anything can be done to rescue it, not about Trevor's daft notions about Stewart and myself.

[Jason]

and you answered those criticisms with eloquent reasoning, however it has now descended beneath ground level and is continuing to dig.

Just my observation !

[Chris]

I will just say that if people are really concerned about the possibility of these documents being destroyed, then it really would be a good idea to complete the partial search of the redacted version for references to the case that's been done, and to make specific requests for copies of any further entries that are found.

Just trying to be constructive (which is perhaps doomed from the outset), I wonder if it's known what the cost of a copy of the complete redacted version would be. I imagine that there would be people willing to sit and do the searching, if copies could be provided.

[Stewart P Evans]

What did you expect?

think its fair to say that this thread does not come under the "covers itself in glory" category !!

What did you expect? It was started by Trevor. Not only that, he launched into an attack on Paul and me in his opening post.