Is the Royal Conspiracy theory back on?

[Bridewell]

The Alibis

Hello Niko. It does not seem to be the case that PAV gave any alibi--false or otherwise. His alibi was established in the last few years by a researcher who traced his movements during the time of the WCM.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

I believe it was established that PAV:

was in Yorkshire on the dates of the Mary Ann Nichols and Annie Chapman murders (staying with a viscount during the former and on army service during the latter).

was in Aberdeenshire for the 'double event' and had lunch with Queen Victoria.

was at Sandringham for the Kelly murder.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Krinoid]

Just reading Prince Eddy and the Homosexual Underworld book, I had no idea that his file is missing from the archives and was destroyed on order!

Anyone else find it weird Abberline was on the Cleaveland street inquiry? He is usually based in Whitechapel? Out of ereyone else to pick, what a coincindence.

[Phil H]

I thought Abberline had left Whitechapel by 1888, and was based at the Yard - put on the ripper case because of his local knowledge, experience and expertise.

How do we know that the PAV file was destroyed to order? Indeed, what file?

I would expect that any material relating to a senior member of the royal family Eddy was 2nd in line to the throne) would have been handled sensitively even if one was ever created.

Personally, I think Cleveland St and JtR were only ever linked later - I don't see any evidence for any connection whatsoever between the two cases.

Phil H

[Simon Wood]

Hi Phil H,

Spot on.

The PAV dots were joined-up long after the events in question.

Never let the facts get in the way of a £1M story.

Regards,

Simon

[RavenDarkendale]

I never bought the Prince Eddy theory, not because that Royals wouldn't sink that low, but because he could be PROVEN not in London at the time of the murders. But here's a thought: Even notice how much Montage John Druitt resembles Prince Eddy? Something about that dreamy eyed (drugged?) look...

Oh and if he were "helped on the road to death" as some claim, it probably had more to do with his family considering him unfit to rule due to being a "tad slow" to put it charitably.

[Krinoid]

I don't think PAV was the Ripper but the file may have been destroyed for his Cleveland street connection or some other link to soething else.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello Phil H,

I agree with you.. Lord Randolph is a non runner as a Whitechapel killer.
The story, and that is what it is, is a well made up fairy tale imho.

best wishes

Phil

Yes but Lord Randolph Churchill suits those who would promulgate the Royal Conspiracy angle because he fits their non-scientific "glue trap traps all" approach to the case.

Chris

[Phil H]

I don't think PAV was the Ripper but the file may have been destroyed for his Cleveland street connection or some other link to soething else.

Do you really think that anyone would open a FILE on a member of the royal family in a criminal case in 1888/89? Had there been any connection, the matter would have been dealt with sensitively, quietly and "diplomatically" between the Home Secretary and the Royal Households. That is how things worked then and would probably work today.

There would have been no file to destroy.

I never bought the Prince Eddy theory... because he could be PROVEN not in London at the time of the murders.

Why - Knight and a few others apart - did anyone ever consider PAV as a candidate for the Ripper? We don't need alibis for him. Pointing a finger at him is just as sensible as pointing it at any other adult alive in 1888.

But here's a thought: Even notice how much Montage John Druitt resembles Prince Eddy? Something about that dreamy eyed (drugged?) look...

In any period in history, there is often a commonality of appearance among certain generations. In the 1880s, short centre-parted macassa-oiled hair was the fashion, as were moustaches. hence two men of similar age MIGHT have a similar look. But I suspect your judgement is entirely subjective and based on photographs.

In height, colouring build etc the two men (in life) might have looked entirely dissimilar.

Oh and if he were "helped on the road to death" as some claim, it probably had more to do with his family considering him unfit to rule due to being a "tad slow" to put it charitably.

Why do we have to assume he was put to death for any reason. people did die young then. In 1936, in the case of PAV's brother, king George V - where euthanasia was employed (to catch the Times rather than the evening papers with news of his death) by Lord Dawson of Penn - no secret was later made of that fact. Why in the case of PAV only a few decades before. Queen Mary was Eddy's fiance and George's queen, so some of the same people were involved.

Phil H

[niko]

Hi everyone,as a kid living in the East end many moon's ago from the stories I heard I got the impression tha PAV was a frequent visitor to the East end and it's clubs, is there any truth in this ? all the best, agur.

Niko.

[Phil H]

I have never seen any reliable evidence - but he was fairly dissipated.

I seem to recall some threads a few months ago, about "toffs" slumming it. It appears that the Music Halls etc were well frequented.

I don't see Eddy going into back streets etc. Aristocrats such as he was, would have been literally "a breed apart" in the 1880s, in the way they spoke, dressed, smelled and behaved.

If he did go, I think it would have been in company and to certain places only.

I have seen some claims that Eddy's father, Edward, Prince of Wales, liked to watch fires and may have had a "pied de terre" in the area. I don't think there has been any firm evidence of that though.

Phil H

[RavenDarkendale]

But here's a thought: Even notice how much Montage John Druitt resembles Prince Eddy? Something about that dreamy eyed (drugged?) look...

In any period in history, there is often a commonality of appearance among certain generations. In the 1880s, short centre-parted macassa-oiled hair was the fashion, as were moustaches. hence two men of similar age MIGHT have a similar look. But I suspect your judgement is entirely subjective and based on photographs.

In height, colouring build etc the two men (in life) might have looked entirely dissimilar.

Well, Phil, I wasn't the first to suggest the two looked so much alike. I read it in Donald Rumbelow's The Complete Jack the Ripper.

[Phil H]

And my reponse would still have been the same.

Though I was once a Druittist (30 years ago) and I confess to having thought about Druitt in connection with the Stephen White anecdote. Not that the latter has much to commend it as an accurate or even authentic account.

Phil H

[Krinoid]

[QUOTE=Phil H;236534][BDo you really think that anyone would open a FILE on a member of the royal family in a criminal case in 1888/89? Had there been any connection, the matter would have been dealt with sensitively, quietly and "diplomatically" between the Home Secretary and the Royal Households. That is how things worked then and would probably work today.There would have been no file to destroy."

The file mentioned in the book was I think the Royal archives file on him, and also there was a mention of parts of Queen Victoria's diary being destroyed and more from edward and Alexandra.

[Phil H]

Queen Victoria's daughter (I think Beatrice, off the top of my head) copied out by hand the entries from her mother's diary that she felt fit to retain. She then destroyed the originals. So the diaries of Queen Victoria, as published, are censored and expurgated. But that is true for the whole of them not just the entries relating to her grandson Eddy.

Some portions were published during the Queen's lifetime as "Leaves from my Highland Journal" and (I think) "More Leaves" - hence Disraeli's famous comment to the Queen: "We authors ma'am."

There is a separate journal, I am told of the Queen's sex life that still exists in a fotostat copy of the original in the Royal archives. One of the Queen's last surviving daughters or granddaughters (I forget which) borroed it and having read it, told George VI she had destroyed it as it was too personal! The King replied that he had thought she might do so, and had retained a copy just in case!

I believe that all the personal correspondence of Edward VII was also destroyed on his death - too many indiscretions probably. His letters to Daisy, Countess of Warwick (at one time his mistress) had to be bought back during his lifetime after blackmail was threatened.

I'll check up re Queen Alexandra.

However, I don't think any of the destruction is related to Eddy specifically or to JtR-related censorship.

Phil H