Mile End Vigilance Committee

[Tom_Wescott]

I thought Don Souden is the exception to this sacred rule?

No, he grew a beard, just not on his face.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

No, he grew a beard, just not on his face.

This is probably too dirty for me to figure out. (But Jeff Leahy would.)

[Adam Went]

Maria:

If the members of the MEVC were in it to make money, much of that would have been simply for themselves and their group to survive and continue to operate on - I think we've already covered the topic of many of the members being from the poorest classes themselves, and I very much doubt any of the members were exceedingly wealthy. So to refer to them as "capitalists" might be a little harsh considering that they didn't have a huge stockpile of money in the first place - and if they did make a quid along the way, as well as apprehend the killer....who could fault that?

Tom:

Well if i'm honest, even if the thought had crossed my mind to ask you to present any of your evidence, I wouldn't have bothered, as I would have expected a response similar to the ones i've received from you in the past. It's now been a year since my article on the Stride murder was published in Ripperologist, and i'm still waiting for you to present the sources you claimed you had regarding the Stride murder witnesses and in particular, Fanny Mortimer's testimony. Every request i've made, and there have been plenty, has been brushed aside. So I would presume you would adopt the same stance here as well.

Having said that, while IMO Le Grand had nothing to do with the Ripper murders, I would be quite happy to view any "evidence" you may have with an open mind.

Cheers,
Adam.

[mariab]

Hi Adam,
I said “capitalism“, not “capitalists“, as in the (very cynical) example of the (poor) street vendor who started featuring USA flags at his street stand on the next day after the Twin Towers collapsed on 9/11 in N.Y..

Adam, about a month ago I've read your article and Tom's and your Letters to the Editor in Rip 113-115, and I'll try reading them again this weekend pertaining to your request about Ms Mortimer's times in her testimony, as I'm interested in this too. (As I'm brushing up on the details in the Stride inquest.)

[ChrisGeorge]

Chris George seems to think I'm so wise. I feel like I should grow a beard or something. And maybe people should start paying me a fee for advice, it would be very welcome.
By the by, Mr George, do you by any chance happen to read Yiddish/Hebrew? I think Gareth Williams (Sam Flynn) reads a bit of it. We've recently had an Arbeter Fraint issue translated and planning to do more issues, but it's a pretty expensive and incredibly time-consuming endeavour.

Hi Maria

No, I am afraid I do not read either Yiddish or Hebrew. I do though think that access to the articles of the issues of Arbeter Fraint could well be most valuable, and it is something I have thought about for some time. Also the files of the newspaper, which I have been told are in Minnesota. Can someone confirm where those files are in fact located?

Chris

[mariab]

Hello Mr George,
about Minnesota I'm not informed, but the entire AF series is available at the British Library and (partly?) at the N.Y. Public Library, if I'm not mistaken. The British Library doesn't xerox them anymore, as they are too fragile, but they allow photographing them (for free). It's recently been discussed that someone goes to the BL and shoots some pics.
Also, at some point in April or May I want to go look if the Berliner Staatsbibliothek doesn't feature any AF issues or similar Jewish newspapers. (Their online catalogue for old newspapers is not up and running yet.)
Lynn Cates recently had an AF issue translated by a lady I've located for him at Northwestern Uni. in Chicago. Lynn was so kind to finance the project, which was not cheap. We're hoping to have more issues translated. I know of someone who owns a copy of the first December 1888 issue, and I was hoping that in due time he might make a xerox copy to send to the Chicago translator. By the way, the translation of the first issue took several months.

[Tom_Wescott]

i'm still waiting for you to present the sources you claimed you had regarding the Stride murder witnesses and in particular, Fanny Mortimer's testimony. Every request i've made, and there have been plenty, has been brushed aside. So I would presume you would adopt the same stance here as well.

You mean like the sources I provided in my letter to the editor of Ripperologist magazine in response to your essay, which was published in the edition following the one with your essay? I can hardly be accused of keeping quiet on the people surrounding the Stride murder. And of course you don't like Le Grand. He was a knife man, and you favor a poisoner for the Ripper.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

And of course you don't like Le Grand. He was a knife man, and you favor a poisoner for the Ripper.

I had no idea that Adam favored Klosowski/Chapman for the Ripper.

[Adam Went]

Maria:

It would be interesting if it could be found out just how much better off the average member of the MEVC was financially in, say, November 1888, compared to July 1888. I'd suggest there wouldn't be much difference at all, unless of course they had come upon money outside of their work with the committee.

And yes, I have favoured Klosowski from the very beginning. I'm not an ardent Klosowski-ite, but to borrow the phrase from Phil Sugden's chapter on him, he is the "least unlikely" of the current field of suspects. Jacob Levy is the best revelation in terms of plausible new suspects in the last decade.

Tom:

If you, or anybody else, can show me exactly where in your apparently superb letter to the editor in response to "A Matter Of Time" you named a specific source (which you claimed existed) for any of your theories on Fanny Mortimer's testimony, then I will gladly eat my words. I've said this numerous times before and nobody has ever been able to point it out to me. I don't understand what's so difficult about writing half a dozen words to name your contemporary source - c'mon Tom, what is it? Why not post it right here for all to see? Perhaps you can follow it up with an explanation for why that particular contemporary source (presuming it exists, and that in itself is doubtful) should be believed more than the 5 or 6 sources I named who stated virtually the same thing regarding her 12.30 - 1 AM stance?

Many thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Adam.

[mariab]

It would be interesting if it could be found out just how much better off the average member of the MEVC was financially in, say, November 1888, compared to July 1888. I'd suggest there wouldn't be much difference at all, unless of course they had come upon money outside of their work with the committee.

Of course they weren't better off, as they didn't get enough donations or a reward from the government. They might have gotten a hot (or cold) meal at The Crown before patrolling, and that's about it. Until Joseph Aarons was forced to sell his pub in 1889.

And yes, I have favoured Klosowski from the very beginning. I'm not an ardent Klosowski-ite, but to borrow the phrase from Phil Sugden's chapter on him, he is the "least unlikely" of the current field of suspects. Jacob Levy is the best revelation in terms of plausible new suspects in the last decade.

I used to be interested in Klosowski, but it appears that the American crimes assigned to him don't add up.
As for Jacob Levy, recently I found out that the sexual assault charge on a 12 year old did not even refer to him, but to another Levy, and old ex soldier having served in India and missing a leg and an arm. (Major weirdness here.)

I'll read your Letter to the Editor in Rip 115 very soon, Adam.

[tji]

As for Jacob Levy, recently I found out that the sexual assault charge on a 12 year old did not even refer to him, but to another Levy, and old ex soldier having served in India and missing a leg and an arm. (Major weirdness here.)

Um Maria, I believe it was Debs who actually found the article on Jacob Levy being a different Jacob to the one mentioned in the Old Bailey in 1874.

Also no real weirdness as such, Jacob Levy seemed to be was quite a popoular name at the time.

Tracy

[mariab]

Of course it was Debs. I said “I found out“, not “I found“.

PS.: Weirdness referred obviously to the one arm/one leg old man sexually assaulting a 12 year old.

[ChrisGeorge]

Maria:

It would be interesting if it could be found out just how much better off the average member of the MEVC was financially in, say, November 1888, compared to July 1888. I'd suggest there wouldn't be much difference at all, unless of course they had come upon money outside of their work with the committee.

And yes, I have favoured Klosowski from the very beginning. I'm not an ardent Klosowski-ite, but to borrow the phrase from Phil Sugden's chapter on him, he is the "least unlikely" of the current field of suspects. Jacob Levy is the best revelation in terms of plausible new suspects in the last decade.

Hi Adam et al.

I don't favor George Chapman (Severin Klosowski) as having been Jack the Ripper, but one thing that is undeniable is that he was a genuine card-carrying East End murderer and in the area at the time of the crimes, which is much more than can be said about most names that are dropped in the hat as suggestions for having been the Whitechapel murderer.

As for Jacob Levy, recently I found out that the sexual assault charge on a 12 year old did not even refer to him, but to another Levy, and old ex soldier having served in India and missing a leg and an arm. (Major weirdness here.)

Um Maria, I believe it was Debs who actually found the article on Jacob Levy being a different Jacob to the one mentioned in the Old Bailey in 1874.

Also no real weirdness as such, Jacob Levy seemed to be was quite a popoular name at the time.

Tracy

Hi Tracy and Maria

As we have discussed before, genealogical research is a minefield because of repeating names. It's very easy to latch on to an individual because of a similar name and think that you have the right person. This is particularly the case with Jewish names because names such as Levy and Hyam (or Hyams) are so common.

All the best

chris

[Tom_Wescott]

c'mon Tom, what is it? Why not post it right here for all to see?

What makes you think I haven't? I'll show you how to fish, but you have to feed yourself. Jacob Levy the best suspect to come along in the last 10 years? Oh, you poor misguided child.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[tji]

Hi Chris

My research folders can definitely attest to that!!!

I think I was lucky when I first researched my own family tree, with a last name like I'anson there isn't many people to get confused with.

Tj