Ripper-Related Victorian Vocabulary

[Archaic]

[QUOTE=Cogidubnus;230732]Hi Archaic

That Workhouses site is a cracker...I've visited it often...my poor old Mum was born in the "House" at Raine Street...so I've something of a special interest!
QUOTE]

Hi Dave.

That's interesting; as an American I tend to think of the workhouses as things of the distant past, but apparently some of the old buildings were converted into hospitals, etc.

Is this the one where your Mum was born? http://www.workhouses.org.uk/StGeorgeInTheEast/

Best regards,
Archaic

[HelenaWojtczak]

The workhouse site is indeed a wonderful resource and I applaud the man who developed it (I wrote to congratulate him).

I was also born in what used to be a workhouse.

Helena

[Cogidubnus]

That's interesting; as an American I tend to think of the workhouses as things of the distant past, but apparently some of the old buildings were converted into hospitals, etc.

Is this the one where your Mum was born? http://www.workhouses.org.uk/StGeorgeInTheEast/

Yes that's the one. She was born in 1928, when it had been taken over by Stepney, and a couple of years before it became a hospital. They used to sanitise the birthplace on birth certificates by giving a notional address as the birthplace - in this case 3 Raine Street.

She died in her own house in Eastbourne a few years back, so she did alright for a poorhouse girl from the East End...but she never lost the gab, and right to the end it was "gertcha"....

(which I insert to put us back on thread!)

All the best

Dave

[Archaic]

Gertcha

She died in her own house in Eastbourne a few years back, so she did alright for a poorhouse girl from the East End...but she never lost the gab, and right to the end it was "gertcha"....

(which I insert to put us back on thread!)

Thanks, Dave. "Gertcha" was actually new to me.

I found it on this page of slang definitions: http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/browse/ZG.HTM

Lots of good slang terms on that page; I kept getting sidetracked on my way to gertcha.

Cheers,
Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

Gertcha cowson...

Hi Archaic

For gertcha and some other old East End references you could do worse than:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYCWYniJyKE

Chas and Dave were pretty special...rabbit is one of theirs, and is a good'un too!

All the best

[Cogidubnus]

Rabbit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaRZB...feature=relmfu

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

Sideboard Song

'Ow about the Sideboard song then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEz5o4upJrY&feature=related

All the best

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

There ain't no pleasing you

Funny enough I could've sung this to my first wife around this time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7dyjo4aas4&feature=relmfu

Dave

[martin wilson]

Thanks for the kind words Archaic and Ruby, and thanks for posting the workhouse article, fairly conclusively proves where the phrase comes from.
James Greenwood is a good writer with a wonderful ear for voices, I'm plodding through The 7 curses on prostitution, particularly the 'dress lodgers' followed everywhere and not allowed gin,doesnt sound like our ladies!
I missed from All The Year Round that 'Boss' was being used in 1874, it confirms it as an American import,14 years before 1888.
All the best.

[Stephen Thomas]

Funny enough I could've sung this to my first wife around this time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7dyjo4aas4&feature=relmfu

What a great song and a deserved #1.

New Orleans Rock n' Roll legend Clarence 'Frogman' Henry did a great cover version....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx71z8-cOvI

[Archaic]

'Casual Ward', 'A Night in the Workhouse' & 'The Amateur Casual'

Oops, gotta get back to Ripper-related stuff!

Here is the definition of 'Casual Ward here for the benefit of new readers; this definition comes from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary-

'CASUAL WARD': a ward in which vagrants seeking temporary public relief are detained for brief specified periods."

This article might be of interest; it gives the background story for Greenwood's groundbreaking essay 'A Night In the Workhouse.' This was published in W.T. Stead's journal 'The Review of Reviews', 1893.


"THE AMATEUR CASUAL."

It was winter, and the question of the homeless and destitute was beginning to attract attention in the press. It occurred to Mr. Greenwood that it would be good business to get some one to spend a night in a casual ward. On reaching home Mr. Greenwood suggested to his brother James the expediency of undertaking the enterprise himself. His brother, who was a rough diamond, did not by any means jump at the proposal; which is not surprising, considering how exceedingly disagreeable a business it was. However, good nature prevailed, and good pay was offered for a good piece of work. "How much? "asked Mr. James. The answer was, "Thirty pounds down, and more if it turns out well."

After some further parleying, his brother decided to see what he could do. A friend of his, a young stockbroker named Bittlestone, expressed his willingness to take part in the adventure. By the sheerest good luck they happened to select Lambeth Workhouse. There seems to have been no. reason why Lambeth was chosen, but, as it happened, it was the very place which was most suitable for their purpose. The casual wards at Lambeth Workhouse would only accommodate sixty-one casuals. Any applicants over this number were placed in an open shed, without warmth, ‘but with plenty of ventilation’.

Here a herd of homeless wretches were stowed away, to pass the night as best they could. Mr. James Greenwood and his companion got themselves up in the most approved style of the regular dosser, and one bitterly cold January night Mr. Frederick Greenwood drove them to within easy walking distance of the casual ward. As he drove away, he saw his brother and Mr. Bittlestone sitting on the stones shivering, without any greatcoats, waiting until the attendant answered the bell. He drove home wondering how it would turn out, and not without some compassionate qualms for the misery which his emissaries would be suffering. Next morning he was there with the carriage, supplied with sandwiches and wine, ready to pick up his amateur casuals. After a time he saw two miserable looking objects walking down the street. "I never saw," said Mr. Greenwood, talking about it afterwards, "so great a change wrought in a single night in the - appearance of any human beings. When they went in they were well disguised, but any close observer would have perceived that they were got up for the occasion. After spending sixteen hours in the cold, squalor, and obscene brutality of the casual ward, they seemed absolutely to have become confirmed tramps and vagabonds."

When they got into the carriage they gave way to some natural exclamations of disgust, the only effective reply being sherry and sandwiches. After a while they calmed down, but they were still smarting under the recollection of the horrors through which they had passed, and it was not until they had got home, had a bath, and were comfortably warmed and fed, that they could be induced to talk quietly about their experience. Mr. James Greenwood then retired to write his story, which he knew well how to do, though he was greatly assisted by the independent observations of his companion. Four eyes were better than two, and one memory assisted the other.

The story being well got together (though much was omitted as "unfit for publication"), the editor retouched it by the light of what he had heard of the visit, as well as what had been written about it; and always with intent to avoid suspicion of exaggeration. Mr. Greenwood had good cause to be careful over this contribution. He had found the knife with which to cut the Pall Mall Gazette free. "



The phrase "much was omitted as "unfit for publication"" has always intrigued me; what was omitted? Greenwood also writes, "The conversation was horrible, the tales that were told more horrible still, and worse than either (though not by any means the most infamous things to be heard—I dare not even hint at them)" and "One word in conclusion. I have avoided the detail of horrors infinitely more revolting than anything that appears in this pamphlet."

Obviously Greenwood is referring to something that would greatly offend the sensibilities of the Pall Mall Gazette's 'respectable' readers. I'm pretty sure he's referring to sexual matters; certainly discussion and maybe activity.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Bridewell]

Jolly

Well,perhaps he did it just for jolly wouldnt you,
From James Greenwood The 7 Curses Of London 1869

One who assists at a sham street row for the purpose of creating a mob and promoting robbery from the person - jolly.

All the best.

Hi Martin,

'Jolly' was also naval slang for a marine.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Colin

Presumably that explains why the bullocks always rowed in the jollyboat...I've wondered about that for years...

Cheers

Dave

[Archaic]

Presumably that explains why the bullocks always rowed in the jollyboat...I've wondered about that for years...

What bullocks?

Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

Bullocks

Oh sorry...it was an 18th/19th Century sailor's nickname for his Royal Marine colleagues on board...sailors were meant to be quick, nimble and flexible, whilst the Marines were meant to be stolid, rigidly disciplined and slightly clumpy...those were the stereotypes anyway...a touch of the old Hornblowers I'm afraid!

Dave