Ripper-Related Victorian Vocabulary

[Archaic]

Tyburn Executions In Film

Hi Magpie. That's the movie about the famous highwaymen, isn't it?

I saw it years ago and enjoyed it. I don't recall the wagon scene, but I remember there were very dramatic depictions of executions at Tyburn.

Scenes from 'Plunkett and MacCleane' are available on YouTube.

Tyburn hanging and escape scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H98Zs0vXTU)

Best regards,
Archaic

[Carol]

As I was learning more about Tyburn, I read about the execution there of one of my own ancestors!

Roger de Mortimer, the 1st Earl of March, became the lover of Queen Isabella and together they overthrew King Edward II. (It's not known whether Edward II was murdered; there are also indications that he was kept alive but imprisoned.) When young Edward III came into power, he had Mortimer seized and executed at Tyburn.

Roger de Mortimer was hung on November 29, 1330. He was the first nobleman to be hung at Tyburn. This occurred before the giant gallows known as "the three-legged mare" was erected. In 1330 Tyburn was called "Tyburn Tree" or "The Elms."

What's both interesting and extremely confusing about my family tree (especially for an American!) is that the families of which it are composed were first friends, relations and allies, then arch-enemies and even the murderers of one another, then they reconciled by intermarrying!
I'm descended from the marriage of Edward III's grand-daughter, Princess Philippa of Clarence, Heiress of Ulster, to Roger de Mortimer's great-grandson and heir Edmund de Mortimer, the 3rd Earl of March.
(So the grandfather of the bride put to death the great-grandfather of the groom.)

Execution of Roger de Mortimer at Tyburn: http://edwardthesecond.blogspot.com/...-mortimer.html

I'm curious if any other members know if one of their ancestors was executed at Tyburn?

Best regards,
Archaic

Hi Archaic!

Really interested to read about your ancestors! Also intrigued to read that Edward II might NOT have been murdered. I've always thought the story of his death particularly sad and awful. I'll be very interested to see what the lady academic now comes up with!

As far as I'm aware none of 'my lot' have been executed at Tyburn (or anywhere else for that matter) but I always think 'Watch this space' when it comes to ancestor hunting. My brother found out several surprises when he did some research into our father's family. For a start, the lady we always assumed was our great-grandmother, was not. She was our grandfather Sanders' step-mother - AND - grandfather Sanders' father married her only 8 (eight) days after his mother died of spinal cancer.

Carol

[Bridewell]

Also intrigued to read that Edward II might NOT have been murdered. I've always thought the story of his death particularly sad and awful.

Hi Carol,

It's certainly awful the way Marlowe depicted it.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Archaic]

Funeral Given By Priest In Cockney Rhyming Slang!

Hi guys.

I thought this article was pretty interesting. The funeral only happened 2 weeks ago.

Cockney Rhyming Slang Funeral: http://www.thisiskent.co.uk/Hush-Nor...ail/story.html

Have any of you ever attended a ceremony where cockney slang was used, rhyming or otherwise?

Thanks,
Archaic

[Archaic]

Hi Carol.

Here's an article claiming that Mortimer kept Edward II alive: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...orycode=176011

OK, back to Victorian slang!

Cheers,
Archaic

[Archaic]

Pearly Kings and Queens Crowned In East End

Here's an article (using lots of Cockney Rhyming Slang) about the recent crowning of the Pearly Kings & Queens in the East End:

http://www.london24.co/news/pearly_kings_and_queens_crowned_in_right_old_east_end_cockney_knees_up_1_1372091

I found it pretty interesting that most of those crowned are descended from the original 28 families who were the Pearly Kings in the old days.

- So are there Pearly Babies??

Cheers,
Archaic

[Rubyretro]

Bunny -There certainly are Pearly babies. I collected photos of Pearly Families with a view to doing some découpage trays and boxes. You've just reminded me that I should do some next spring !

[Archaic]

Pearly King Founder's Funeral Procession

Hi Ruby. I think you'll like this then- a 1930 silent film of the sparkling funeral procession held in honor of the founder of the Pearly Kings, Henry Croft.

I just posted it on the East End Photos thread, post #3447: http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...611#post224611

Cheers,
Archaic

PS: I'd love to see a photo of one of your Pearly trays or boxes, can you pm me with a pic? Thanks!

[Carol]

Hi Carol.

Here's an article claiming that Mortimer kept Edward II alive: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...orycode=176011

OK, back to Victorian slang!

Cheers,
Archaic

Hi Archaic,
Just read the article. Very interesting!
Carol

[HelenaWojtczak]

Hi All,

Slap and tickle: any sexual contact ranging from a cuddle to full blown sex.

I'd dearly love to know how this phrase started. Was slapping and tickling a woman what passed for foreplay in the c19th? I can't say it would get me going!

Helena

[Archaic]

Slap and Tickle

Hi everyone.

I've looked up "Slap and Tickle" and so far haven't found a definite phrase origin.

I'm pretty sure it's a 20th C. term; it has always struck me as sounding like a cleverly naughty phrase from my favorite era, the 1920's. The earliest use of it in print that I've seen so far in 1917, which would suggest that it's WWI-era slang.

I'm pretty sure that the first time I ever heard it used was in the eponymous song by Squeeze, but then I'm an American.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Archaic]

'Area-Thief'

From 1874-

Area-thief: A thief who commits depredations upon kitchens and cellars.

In the UK the word "area" has a meaning that most Americans are not familiar with; it refers to an enclosed recessed space next to a building.

In the Victorian city, kitchens and cellars were often located below street level and accessed by steps leading down from the street level; because they were hidden from view they were popular targets for thieves.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Archaic]

'Resurrection Pie' , 'Area-Sneak'

From the 1870's and 1880's:

'Resurrection Pie': Once a school but now a common phrase, being used in reference to a pie supposed to be made of scraps and leavings that have been seen before.

Oh God, what a scary name for a meat pie- I had visions of Sweeney Todd!! I guess school-children suspected that their rather grim pie was made of left-over table scraps. (And it probably was, too.)

A synonymous term for 'Area-Thief' (see post above) was 'Area-Sneak'. I imagine that many 'area-sneaks' were hungry children trying to snatch a bit of food.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

Ax

"I'll ax"

It actually means "I will ask" or "I will find out".

I don't believe this particular phrase or use of the word "ax" is in use at all nowadays.

Hi Phil

I think this must still be in use in parts of the West Country too, as we've recently recruited a "Brissel girly" at work, who uses ax for ask...

All the best

Dave

[Phil Carter]

Hello Dave,

That's the first time Ive heard that used in many a year I must admit. You'll have fun learning from that lady if she uses such long lost phrases!

cheers!

Phil