Ripper-Related Victorian Vocabulary

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Archaic

'All The Year Round' was published by Charles Dickens. Here's the full entry from All the Year Round, 1875:

Kidney.—Of the same kidney, i.e. alike, resemblant. "Two of a kidney," says the Slang Dictionary, "means two persons of a sort, or as like each other as two peas, or two kidneys in a bunch." Gaelic, ceudna (pronounced kidna), identical, the same, similar. Ceudnachd, similarity.

- Perhaps by mailing Kate's kidney to George Lusk the killer was making the symbolic statement "They're all the same",
i.e. "One dead whore is the same as another"?

Re Kate Eddowes, isn't the Kidney reference just as much appropriate (if not more so) to Stride?

Dave

[Archaic]

Hi Dave.

I see what you mean. Yes, it could be regarded as a reference to Stride.

I was thinking more along the lines that the kidney could be a wider reference to the killer's views of all prostitutes, or even of all women.

"They don't matter individually; they're all the same." That kind of attitude.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

Kidney

Ah but if Kate's kidney were a clever reference to Liz's other half, that'd probably constitute a conspiracy theory!

All the best

Dave

[Archaic]

At least you didn't say "Liz's better half"...


Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

At least you didn't say "Liz's better half"...

No, that'd be too much like two prisoners comparing life sentences!

Dave

[martin wilson]

Well,perhaps he did it just for jolly wouldnt you,
From James Greenwood The 7 Curses Of London 1869

One who assists at a sham street row for the purpose of creating a mob and promoting robbery from the person - jolly.

All the best.

[Archaic]

Hi Martin, another great great observation! Thanks very much.

James Greenwood is one of my favorite Victorian authors and an invaluable source of information.

I love his little pen-name, "The Amateur Casual". (Adopted because he disguised himself as a poor person in order to get an inside view of the 'Casual Wards'.)

Best regards,
Archaic

[Archaic]

"Nark"

Here are two 1890 definitions of the word 'Nark', both derived from what is called "thieves' cant", the slang language employed by thieves:

1. 'Nark, or copper's nark' (thieves), a man or woman who is a police spy upon his comrades or class.

"He had a nark with him, so I went and looked for my two pals, and told them to look out for S. and his nark." — Hanley: 'Jottings from Jail'.

This seems to have some connection with the Dutch narruicen, to follow about, spy, and narrecht, information.

2. 'Nark', (thieves), to watch, observe, look after or into closely.



I also found an 1859 definition of "Nark", but they spelled it as "Nard" with a "d". Perhaps this is because it was so new a slang term that its spelling hadn't been standardized?

Here is the 1859 dictionary entry giving the source:

'NARD', n. A person who obtains information
under seal of confidence, and afterwards breaks
faith.—Times, Police case, April 2, 1859.

I'm curious to know if anybody has seen an earlier use of this word?

Thanks,
Archaic

PS: Many modern dictionaries claim that "nark" is short for "narcotic" or "narco" and dates to the 1930's, but the word had an earlier derivation and meaning.

[martin wilson]

James Greenwood

Was he the chap who did a kind of expose of the cheap lodging houses?
I recall reading something a couple of years ago, apparently an item of clothing could be used as a deposit (I wonder if that's where the phrase 'they'll have the shirt off your back' came from?)
Anyway I remember whoever handing over 'a certain garment' in a handkerchief to the landlady.
All the best.

[Rubyretro]

Martin -please stick around Casebook ! (Bunny -once again - just how do you know so much ? Give me your secret....!)

[Wickerman]

Here are two 1890 definitions of the word 'Nark', both derived from what is called "thieves' cant", the slang language employed by thieves:

1. [I]'Nark, or copper's nark' (thieves), a man or woman who is a police spy upon his comrades or class.

"He had a nark with him, so I went and looked for my two pals, and told them to look out for S. and his nark." — Hanley: 'Jottings from Jail'.

I can't imagine why 'thieves' have anything to do with it, except that it might mean the origin of the word. A "nark" has always meant "informer".

Jon S.

[Archaic]

Thieves' Cant

(Bunny -once again - just how do you know so much ? Give me your secret....!)

Hi Ruby.

Osmosis.

Assisted by a lifelong addiction to reading.

I can't imagine why 'thieves' have anything to do with it, except that it might mean the origin of the word. A "nark" has always meant "informer".

Hi Jon.

"Thieves' Cant" is what those who studied language, jargon and slang in the 19th C. termed the jargon of the criminal underworld. It's simply a form of language classification based upon origin. The term "cant" is used because the true meaning of the words was only known to a certain subset of the population.

It wasn't necessarily only "thieves" who used it, but that was the early term for the "criminal populace".

When cant terms are new they function as a secret language; as they become more widely known they become a sort of "street slang".

And after that they often become annoying clichés.



Archaic

[Archaic]

'A Night in the Workhouse' by James Greenwood

Was he the chap who did a kind of expose of the cheap lodging houses?
I recall reading something a couple of years ago, apparently an item of clothing could be used as a deposit (I wonder if that's where the phrase 'they'll have the shirt off your back' came from?)
Anyway I remember whoever handing over 'a certain garment' in a handkerchief to the landlady.
All the best.

Hi Martin.

Yes, you're correct. James Greenwood was one of the pioneers of Investigative Journalism. His brother Frederick Greenwood was the first editor of the Pall Mall Gazette, which published their story 'A Night in the Workhouse'. James and a friend named Bittlestone disguised themselves in rags and spent a night in the Lambeth Workhouse Casual Ward. They had quite a harrowing experience, and the public was fascinated.

Here's the article, including the bit about handing over their clothes, courtesy of a fantastic website called Workhouses.org -

'A Night in the Workhouse': http://www.workhouses.org.uk/lit/Greenwood.shtml

Thanks very much for raising this subject, Martin. And I echo Ruby in asking you to stick around; I've greatly enjoyed your contributions.

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic

[Archaic]

Casebook Page for 'A Night in the Workhouse'

Here's the Casebook page for 'A Night in the Workhouse', with related links indexed below:

http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/book_reviews/victorian_london/book_detail.html?id=6dfcb0a1654bfb732303c306f5e103b0

Best regards,
Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Archaic

That Workhouses site is a cracker...I've visited it often...my poor old Mum was born in the "House" at Raine Street...so I've something of a special interest!

All the best

Dave