Jack the Catholic?!

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Norma

And what exactly is being thought about on this thread?

I don't know. Do you?

And if JTR was Catholic and confessed to a priest what do you think the priest would do?

Just whistling in the dark here, by the way.

[The Good Michael]

Stephen

The priest would have and should have done nothing according to the tenets of the church, save for counseling perhaps.

Mike

[mklhawley]

Stephen

The priest would have and should have done nothing according to the tenets of the church, save for counseling perhaps.

Mike

I believe you are talking about the Seal of the Sacrament. There is no set forumula for penances, but it seems obvious that the priest would require reconciliation (purpose of confession) to be giving himself in.

Mike

[mklhawley]

...also, I believe a Priest is allowed to discuss something he discovers in confession if he is given approval by the confessor. My point is that a Priest also has a responsibility for protecting his flock from a killer.

Mike

[The Good Michael]

From Catholiceducation.org: The sacramental seal is inviolable. Quoting Canon 983.1 of the Code of Canon Law, the Catechism states, "...It is a crime for a confessor in any way to betray a penitent by word or in any other manner or for any reason" (No. 2490). A priest, therefore, cannot break the seal to save his own life, to protect his good name, to refute a false accusation, to save the life of another, to aid the course of justice (like reporting a crime), or to avert a public calamity. He cannot be compelled by law to disclose a person's confession or be bound by any oath he takes, e.g. as a witness in a court trial. A priest cannot reveal the contents of a confession either directly, by repeating the substance of what has been said, or indirectly, by some sign, suggestion, or action. A Decree from the Holy Office (Nov. 18, 1682) mandated that confessors are forbidden, even where there would be no revelation direct or indirect, to make any use of the knowledge obtained in the confession that would "displease" the penitent or reveal his identity. "

If people believe in such a thing as pastors and priests being God's representative or voice to the flock, it must be important to maintain that confidentiality. I have no love for organized religion in any form, nor do I trust it, but those who DO trust in it, surely must have it abide by its tenets and regulations (or appear to).

Cheers,

Mike

[Natalie Severn]

Dont worry about it Stephen.Its clear you have misunderstood my posts.No matter.
Norma

[mklhawley]

From Catholiceducation.org: The sacramental seal is inviolable. Quoting Canon 983.1 of the Code of Canon Law, the Catechism states, "...It is a crime for a confessor in any way to betray a penitent by word or in any other manner or for any reason" (No. 2490). A priest, therefore, cannot break the seal to save his own life, to protect his good name, to refute a false accusation, to save the life of another, to aid the course of justice (like reporting a crime), or to avert a public calamity. He cannot be compelled by law to disclose a person's confession or be bound by any oath he takes, e.g. as a witness in a court trial. A priest cannot reveal the contents of a confession either directly, by repeating the substance of what has been said, or indirectly, by some sign, suggestion, or action. A Decree from the Holy Office (Nov. 18, 1682) mandated that confessors are forbidden, even where there would be no revelation direct or indirect, to make any use of the knowledge obtained in the confession that would "displease" the penitent or reveal his identity. "

If people believe in such a thing as pastors and priests being God's representative or voice to the flock, it must be important to maintain that confidentiality. I have no love for organized religion in any form, nor do I trust it, but those who DO trust in it, surely must have it abide by its tenets and regulations (or appear to).

Cheers,

Mike

Another point is that confession is for sins that have already been committed. Any possible threats to kill in the future is not binding by the seal of confession, so it would be the priest's civic duty (of which they are also bound) to inform (while he gives the killer a penance of turning himself in for any past killings).

Mike

[JTRSickert]

Perhaps this has been brought up in this forum already, but I'll ask it anyway

What Catholic churches (if any) were located in that part of the city? I don't think Christ Church was one. However, was the St. Mary's parish a Catholic one?,

[The Good Michael]

Another point is that confession is for sins that have already been committed. Any possible threats to kill in the future is not binding by the seal of confession, so it would be the priest's civic duty (of which they are also bound) to inform (while he gives the killer a penance of turning himself in for any past killings).

I don't agree with that. Any statement, given in a confessional, seems to be bound by that seal, regardless if it's future thoughts about something.
It's been a long time, but I remember having to discuss, with the priest, things I did that were habitual like fighting with my brothers or something. Habitual also means in the future quite probably. Yet, the priest could not discuss that outside of the confessional, and doesn't actually have the same civic responsibility that we all do. His obedience is to his covenant with God and not to the secular powers. After all, God's laws must be correct, even if they don't quite seem right. I mean, it's his plan, isn't it?

Cheers,

Mike

[mklhawley]

I don't agree with that. Any statement, given in a confessional, seems to be bound by that seal, regardless if it's future thoughts about something.
It's been a long time, but I remember having to discuss, with the priest, things I did that were habitual like fighting with my brothers or something. Habitual also means in the future quite probably. Yet, the priest could not discuss that outside of the confessional, and doesn't actually have the same civic responsibility that we all do. His obedience is to his covenant with God and not to the secular powers. After all, God's laws must be correct, even if they don't quite seem right. I mean, it's his plan, isn't it?

Cheers,

Mike

I cheated Mike. I asked a priest and this is what he told me. Maybe he's misinterpreting (that's not the first time). He said it is true that his obedience is not to secular powers, but to the magisterium (sp). They require civic resopnsibility as long as it does not interfere with things like the Seal of Sacrament. He did tell me that confession is not for future possible sins, just the desire to commit something in the future.

According to Donald Rumbelow, there was a catholic footprint in Whitechapel at the time of the murders, especially because of all the Irish immigrants. He even mentioned the church in his book, but I have to find my book!

Mike

[Observer]

Hi Mike

There was also a large Jewish footprint. Surely it's all academic though, none of the available evidence helps us to even guess at the religion of the Whitechapel murderer.

all the best

Observer

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Rocky Mountain News [Colorado], 17th January 1892

WHITECHAPEL CRIME
Possible Discovery of the Identity of Jack the Ripper - Curious Legacy of a Priest

London, Jan. 2.

"A royal commission is to investigate the now almost forgotten Whitechapel murders. It is understood that the death of a Catholic priest in the East End of London has placed some important revelations in the hands of the police. There can be no doubt that the priest, under the seal of confession, died possessed of information that might have led to the arrest of the murderer or murderers of the wretched women known as "Jack the Ripper's" victims. That the priest had qualms of conscience regarding the sanctity of confession, even in connection with such atrocities, is evinced by the sealed packet he left behind him addressed to Sir Edward Bradford, chief of London's police department. On the package was inscribed, in the dead priest's handwriting, 'This is to be opened after my death - my lips must never reveal it.'

"Beyond the above, carelessly mentioned by a garrulous official who has since been severely reprimanded for his indiscretion, no further information can be obtained from the police. Whether it will lead to the detection of the Whitechapel fiend is a problem difficult to solve . . ."

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

What an outstanding find Simon! You certainly do some sterling research providing a number of fresh avenues to go down.
Best
Norma

[mklhawley]

Hi Mike

There was also a large Jewish footprint. Surely it's all academic though, none of the available evidence helps us to even guess at the religion of the Whitechapel murderer.

all the best

Observer

Sorry for the delay. I got freaked out by Daniel G's thread.

So true, Observer. Also, I agree with Norma. What a great find Simon.

Mike

[Observer]

Hi Mike

A very good find indeed, but with respect what does it prove? The Jack the Ripper series of murders seemed to lure every crank and nutcase out of the proverbial woodwork. Letters to newspapers, mad men roaming the streets frightening innocent young women, a human kidney sent by post for goodness sake. I would not be surprised if Simon's story, was just another nutcase having a bit of so called fun.

all the best

Observer