The writing - a name?

[JacknJill]

What great message, then, is the killer saying to the Police?
If it's that kind of message, then it's important to his thinking.

I actually sorta liked the idea that it could be an anagram or some sort of other code left by the killer. If anyone can figure anything out from it then we'd have a whle new arguement on our hands. Wow - this has amounted to alot more than I thought it would, lol.

[DaveMc]

It would be an extreme coincidence, since the graffiti would have only been written within a short amount of time from when the apron was dropped, since none of the residents of the building appear to have recalled it. Apparently, there was no other such graffiti on the entire street, and the Ripper happened to drop his apron piece just at this precise spot? This may have been the only time the Ripper felt compelled to communicate something with the police, which would explain why there was no graffiti attached to other crime scenes.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

What great message, then, is the killer saying to the Police?
If it's that kind of message, then it's important to his thinking.

[DVV]

It would be an extreme coincidence, since the graffiti would have only been written within a short amount of time from when the apron was dropped, since none of the residents of the building appear to have recalled it. Apparently, there was no other such graffiti on the entire street, and the Ripper happened to drop his apron piece just at this precise spot? This may have been the only time the Ripper felt compelled to communicate something with the police, which would explain why there was no graffiti attached to other crime scenes.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

This post is a joy to read.
Thanks Tom.

[JacknJill]

Typed Juwes into Google and this came up:

In the ritual of Master Mason, Hiram Abif was slain by three ruffians collectively termed The Juwes. According to C.C. Zain, these three represent the Midheaven, the Ascendant and the Descendent position of the sun (1). The solar motif is picked up because their collective name has the gematria value of 1908 and thereby measures a Seal of Solomon with sides of 318, hence Ηλιος - the Sun. They also, in some fashion, personate the new moon because 1908 divided by three is 636, value of Η Νου Μηνια - The New Moon. The conjunction of the sun and the new moon are a central part of the ritual of Master Mason.

Just thought it interesting that a Masons link has been mentioned before, and wasn't it claimed that the murders may have been committed by more than one person.
Just goes to show that I can make nothing out of nothing. LOL

looby64 - that's interesting. Strangely enough, despite the common saying of "when in doubt... Google it" I never actually thought to type the word Juwes into Google. It's weird that never passed my mind seeming as I've been thinking it over for ages.
This thread has actually done a hell of alot better than I thought it would. I remember hearing somewhere about Juwes appearing in a separate criminal record - however, I'm not sure if it was speculation or fact. Anyone here know anything about that?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Hunter,

I'm sure the Ripper left the apron and graffiti at the same time, but he clearly did not do this immediately after leaving Mitre Square, unless - as you noted - we choose to disregard the evidence of two police officers.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Hunter]

Hi Tom,

Especially if he had the nerve to return later to dispose of the apron and unless both Long and Halse were derelict in their duty, that may be just what he did. If everything that happened that night can be linked to one individual ( and in my "traditionalist" viewpoint I think they do) This guy was really feeling his oats that night.

One more note. Halse was acually in the area looking for clues or the killer at that time and didn't see anything at first.

[Tom_Wescott]

It would be an extreme coincidence, since the graffiti would have only been written within a short amount of time from when the apron was dropped, since none of the residents of the building appear to have recalled it. Apparently, there was no other such graffiti on the entire street, and the Ripper happened to drop his apron piece just at this precise spot? This may have been the only time the Ripper felt compelled to communicate something with the police, which would explain why there was no graffiti attached to other crime scenes.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[looby64]

Typed Juwes into Google and this came up:

In the ritual of Master Mason, Hiram Abif was slain by three ruffians collectively termed The Juwes. According to C.C. Zain, these three represent the Midheaven, the Ascendant and the Descendent position of the sun (1). The solar motif is picked up because their collective name has the gematria value of 1908 and thereby measures a Seal of Solomon with sides of 318, hence Ηλιος - the Sun. They also, in some fashion, personate the new moon because 1908 divided by three is 636, value of Η Νου Μηνια - The New Moon. The conjunction of the sun and the new moon are a central part of the ritual of Master Mason.

Just thought it interesting that a Masons link has been mentioned before, and wasn't it claimed that the murders may have been committed by more than one person.
Just goes to show that I can make nothing out of nothing. LOL

[GregBaron]

Message......

The discussion made me think that if clever enough, doubtful in my view, perhaps this ignorant message is a cryptogram of some sort? I'm a student of Edgar Allan Poe and other cryptographers so it piques my interest. Think it very remote but if someone could come up with something from say the opening letters of each word TJATMTWNBBFN that might give some person with alot of time on their hands something to do. I expect it's already been done? I agree that it's probably not JTR but some local with a beef but if JTR was educated and wanted to appear otherwise, perhaps he threw in a smart cryptogram? What do y'all think? BTW, I'm the rare American in here so I like to throw in my Southern slang's sometimes for grins.......

Greg

[JacknJill]

Unfortunately, I do agree that it is highly unlikely, actually more likely a definite no that the writing was done by JTR. I thought however that it was an interesting comment that probably deserved a post even if it did come up with nothing. Thanks Scott for dropping by too.
Maybe one day someone will invent a time machine and we can go back and see what happened in Whitechapel, cause unless that happens I highly doubt it could ever be solved. Not completely. It's been too long, too much evidence has been tampered with or lost, and it's impossible for everybody to agree, lol.
I do think it's possible though, that Juwes wasn't just a mispelling of Jews. But we'll never get proof. And the capital letters were probably written in by the officer, by force of habit if nothing else, good point that.

[DaveMc]

Just for clarification.

I don't believe the GSG was written by or connected with JtR.

I feel that it is much more likely to have been related to some local disagreement that was going on. It is just possible that this involved a family with a names like the Juwers.

Regards,
Autolycus.

It's connected since a piece of Eddowes' apron was reported to be found there.
Otherwise, I agree.

The killer had plenty of time to leave messages at the Kelly murder and didn't.
Nor any other site.
It could be a message written by a frustrated citizen who felt the Police were showing the Jewish community special protection.

Apart from that, I believe I have read that it was primarily Jews who lived in that particular building. Why would a Jewish killer scrawl an insult on a building inhabited by Jews?

Why would a man murder non-Jewish women and display an anger towards Jews?

Again, if it's boasting or trying to incite anger against the Jews, then why not be boastful at the Kelly murder?
Why not leave some Jewish symbol at the scenes of the murders?

It makes little sense to me that the message was written by the killer.

[Pippin Joan]

Maybe its an anagram for something disgusting, if Lewis Carroll was the Ripper. Honestly, the GSG was just a coincidental item. The Ripper was hardly going to clean off his hands and ditch the filthy rag, and then get a sudden inspiration to make a social statement on the wall. Lucky he had a stick of chalk in his pocket! The grammar and spelling indicate to me a person who was not a native English speaker. I like the thinking of your student though. One idea I've considered is that the sentence was not anti-Jewish, but a grammatically twisted statement of defiance, along the lines of "You ain't blaming me for nothing!"

[Mike Covell]

Maybe one could copy and paste the graffitti into a box of squares and create a ripper code, similar to the diary code, using equidistant letter skips.

TheJuwesareThementhatWillnotbeBlamedforNothing

[Autolycus]

Just for clarification.

I don't believe the GSG was written by or connected with JtR.

I feel that it is much more likely to have been related to some local disagreement that was going on. It is just possible that this involved a family with a names like the Juwers.

Regards,
Autolycus.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

Just noticed this after the Pentagram thread in General discussion!

Yes, with common sense the word "Juwes" just means "jews" spelled incorrectly. The only clue the word could give, is the home region of the writer.

Yet, it's quite possible, that JtR didn't write that!

All the best
Jukka