The writing - a name?

[DaveMc]

What do we know? We know what the police found, and what they think that supposedly meant, but what solid evidence on JTR himself do we have? We can't make any decisions about him and say that they are correct, was all I was pointing out. Also, note I didn't say /all/ of it was guesswork?

Sorry, there. When you mentioned his method I focused squarely on the attacks.

Obviously, there's no evidence on the killer himself or he would have been caught.

No matte who any has as a suspect, it's arbitrary.
As you said, we don't have any actual evidence of his identity.

For me, a puzzle needs at least two pieces.
I don't have anything at all regarding the killer writing messages on the wall to put together with this one.

[JacknJill]

Hi all,

Sorry the spacing didn't come out right in the quote:

The Juwes are the men that
will not be blamed for
nothing.

Becomes

F G Abberline. Now hate M J
Druitt. He sent the woman to
Hell.

Dave

Lol, now that the spacing's right it makes alot more sense. And that's pretty interesting. It's possible it's reading a bit too far into it? I am definitely checking this stuff out though.

[Dave James]

Hi all,

Sorry the spacing didn't come out right in the quote:

The Juwes are the men that
will not be blamed for
nothing.

Becomes

F G Abberline. Now hate M J
Druitt. He sent the woman to
Hell.

Dave

[Dave James]

GSG as an anagram

Hi All,
It was suggested earlier on in the thread that the GSG might be a ripper code or an anagram. May I direct you to Jack the Ripper Revealed by John Wilding.

"The full anagram, which uses every letter of the graffiti is as follows:

The Juwes are the men that F.G. Abberline. Now hate M.J
will not be blamed for Druitt. He sent the woman to
nothing. hell.

Further, he points out that the two JtR Liverpool letters also contain messages.

Sooooo!

All the best
Dave

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Edward,

Long said they weren't there one minute, but were there the next. That's what I meant.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Edward]

Dave,


* The apron and graffiti, according to PC Long, were left there at the same time, and this was following the Eddowes murder.
* The message is in no way blatantly anti-Semetic OR pro-Semitic, and only makes sense in reference to the murders.
* There apparently was not much if any other graffiti on the street.
* The inhabitants of the building did not recall the graffiti having been present at a time prior to the murder.
* The investigating officials, who had a better understanding of the people, the place, and the times than we will ever have, held a majority view that the graffiti was written by the Ripper.

Tom Wescott

Tom -

I don't recall reading a statement where PC Long states that the graffiti and apron were left at the same time. Was the statement made at an inquest? Can you direct me to where I may find it? I'm not nearly as well-versed with the Casebook as are many others.

My belief is that the officials' main concern was fear that the graffiti could prompt violence upon Jews (whether or not it had anything to do with the murder). The officials' "understanding of the people, the place, and the times" made it abundantly clear to them how emotionally charged the local populace was during that Autumn. Some of the "witness" statements had described suspects as "foreign looking" or as "Jewish looking". There was a general belief amongst the local population that the murderer was Jewish or "foreign", and many of the new immigrants were Jews.

As for the graffiti itself, I still maintain that the message does not even obliquely refer to murder (or any other specific act).

Respectfully,
Edward

[DVV]

By all accounts, Dave, the Victoria Home was more comfortable.

Amitiés,
David

[JacknJill]

I think his method is realized in the official reports.
That's not a matter of guesswork to me.

What do we know? We know what the police found, and what they think that supposedly meant, but what solid evidence on JTR himself do we have? We can't make any decisions about him and say that they are correct, was all I was pointing out. Also, note I didn't say /all/ of it was guesswork?

[DaveMc]

Hi Dave,

thanks for your explanation above.
I would however stick to my belief that Jack purposely left the piece of apron where it has been found.

Amitiés,
David

Good.
Now I have something to tease you and Tom about.

By your own logic then, as easily as he slipped in to leave the message, he slipped his way out back to Buckingham Palace.

[DVV]

Hi Dave,

thanks for your explanation above.
I would however stick to my belief that Jack purposely left the piece of apron where it has been found.

Amitiés,
David

[DaveMc]

This sort of brings back to point that I originally made this thread for - the word Juwes and the theory from my class that it was actually meant to mean something other than Jew. Lol. Back to square one.

And yes, that was basically what I was trying to say before. About no evidence pointing to what he did, so therefore wouldn't alot of what has been figured out as his M.O and whatnot have to be alot of just that - guesswork?

I think his method is realized in the official reports.
That's not a matter of guesswork to me.

[DaveMc]

A citizen ?
Cutting a piece of Kate's apron at the crime scene ?
How ? Why ? When ?

Amitiés,
David

What I suspect, Dave, is that the apron was torn either during the attack or while it was being moved to or traveling on the ambulance stretcher.

This is from the Eddowes Post-mortem.
The clothes were taken off carefully from the body. A piece of deceased's ear dropped from the clothing.

Imagine that the piece of ear might have been what was left at Goulston Street and then ask what would the argument be?
Even though it would be the truth that the ear piece had been stuck in the clothing and fallen out, it would still appear logical to some that it was taken there by the killer.

The same parameters are what I'm applying to the apron piece.
It fell off of the body and was picked up by a citizen.
The motive is what Warren feared.
To incite anger against the Jews.

[JacknJill]

Nor did he make leave any indications referring to the Jewish community.

Yes. He "could have" done many things.
But without evidence from one of the other murders, it's only guesswork.

This sort of brings back to point that I originally made this thread for - the word Juwes and the theory from my class that it was actually meant to mean something other than Jew. Lol. Back to square one.

And yes, that was basically what I was trying to say before. About no evidence pointing to what he did, so therefore wouldn't alot of what has been figured out as his M.O and whatnot have to be alot of just that - guesswork?

[DaveMc]

Dave,

Why should the Ripper leave messages at every murder if the message he left pertained only to the murders that night? And what indications do you have that someone else 'moved' the apron? None. We work with what we know, and that is:

* The apron and graffiti, according to PC Long, were left there at the same time, and this was following the Eddowes murder.
* The message is in no way blatantly anti-Semetic OR pro-Semitic, and only makes sense in reference to the murders.
* There apparently was not much if any other graffiti on the street.
* The inhabitants of the building did not recall the graffiti having been present at a time prior to the murder.
* The investigating officials, who had a better understanding of the people, the place, and the times than we will ever have, held a majority view that the graffiti was written by the Ripper.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

The end reasoning for me here, Tom is that there were at least two methods and opportunities for the apron piece to make it's way to Goulston Street.
So it comes down to measuring the motives and what is to gain by it.

Ultimately, the measure of anything having to do with the case is valued by what makes the most sense.
Angry citizen makes the most sense to me.

I'm unaware of any statement by an official that they felt the killer had left the message. I've only found that it was evidence.
Is there something you can lead me to on that?

[DaveMc]

Hi J&J,

The idea that the Ripper did not write the graffiti took hold as Kosminski grew in popularity as a suspect.

Tom Wescott

I didn't mean to add any fuel to that fire, Tom.

I almost feel sorry for my view.

I have my own doubts about Kosminski.