The writing - a name?

[Edward]

Random thought on the message

Hello All-

Just how many policemen copied down the chalk message? How many of the policemen used capital letters? -and- Did the capital letters occur in the same words? We seem to be moving forward on the idea that one police official “got it right”. If the majority of police copied down the message, and used capital letters in the same words (alternate spelling aside), then we have a better probability that the capital letters actually occurred, and were actually used in the same words. It’s a shame that the message was not photographed.

Edward

[Phil Carter]

Hello Don,

Very possibly. I agree with your comprehension comment. It can be read differently though. Syntaxes are by their very nature, involved.
I agree that of course one can read it as you have done...very possibly correct. It just goes to show that we READ things differently.

best wishes

Phil

*edit* Note that Long says they didn't enquire at each tenement.

[Supe]

Phil,

When Hunt returned, an enquiry was made at every tenement of the Building but we could gain no witness of any one going in likely to be the murderer.

Reading comprehension can be a tricky thing, as we all learned taking standarized tests in school. That said, I read the statement quite differently: We did bang on every door in the building but none of those interviewed saw anyone entering the building who was likely to be the murderer.

To suggest that "we could gain no witness of any one going in . . ." to mean "but only those GOING IN seemed to be talked to as to whether or not they were the murderer." is to believe in a syntax even more tortured than that used by the writer of the graffito.

Don.

[Phil Carter]

They did speak to all the tenants of the buildings and came away with the conclusion that the Ripper likely wrote the graffiti.

Hello Tom,

Actually, on this point I think you may be mistaken..If I am wrong I apologise on beforehand.. I wrote of this in a thread a little while back called Mind boggling... post No.16


......PC Alfred Long 254A, drafted in from A Division, Westminster as part of the extra patrols during the Ripper scare, talking about this FIRST night on duty in the area, said at the inquest...

When I found the apron I at once searched the staircase leading to the Buildings. I did not make any enquiries at the tenements of the buildings.

Daniel Halse, dectective officer of the City of London police said...

... .When Hunt returned, an enquiry was made at every tenement of the Building but we could gain no witness of any one going in likely to be the murderer.


This can be interpreted as the following...

Halse says enquiries were made at every tenament, but only those GOING IN seemed to be talked to as to whether or not they were the murderer. So they didn't SAY they banged on the doors of everyone living there and talked to THEM, nor those GOING OUT.

I have cut the posting down to the appropriate parts.

best wishes

Phil

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Jukka,

Thanks for keeping an open mind and trying it out. Of course, any person reading what you wrote would never guess you were writing 'IWMES', but would assume it was something like 'JUWES', which is precisely my point. Thanks for proving the strength of my argument.

Hunter,

They did speak to all the tenants of the buildings and came away with the conclusion that the Ripper likely wrote the graffiti. The graffiti makes no sense as an anti-Semitic remark, it makes no sense as a pro-Semitic remark, but it makes perfect sense when taken in conjunction with the two murders that night. Add one bloody apron piece and you have a legitimate communication from the Ripper.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Hunter]

Interesting theory Tom. Not going to go there though, except to say that there are many that defend the decision to erase the message. As we know they decided to copy it down instead. Problem is, they couldn't even do that right. Twelve little words, and they all "copied" it different. One would think that they would have at least asked the tennants if they had seen it. Maybe they did; I don't know. But, coupled with the bunch over at Berner St. that never saw Stride before her body was found in their yard, I can't help but come away with the thought that some good opportunities were missed that night.

I reckon if JTR didn't kill Liz or write the message it wouldn't have mattered much anyway. What I mentioned in the previous paragraph certainly didn't help to find out.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Tom!

I couldn't help making a test.

And believe it or not, I tried to write IWMES.

So, did you mean something like this?!

All the best
Jukka

[Tom_Wescott]

Solution to the graffiti?

What great message, then, is the killer saying to the Police?
If it's that kind of message, then it's important to his thinking.

Hi Davey Mac. Well, it's not a popular theory, but here it is. To start of with, any careful study of the graffiti from those who actually saw it can lead to only one conclusion - no two people, from Warren to Halse to Long to Foster, et al, recorded it the same way. DC Halse spent more time in the company of the writing than did anyone, yet even his version slightly differs from that provided us by Warren. What these two variations have in common is their rendition of the second word of the sentence - Juwes. Every other version offered by someone else has it different, i.e. Jewes, Juews, etc.

What occurred to me was that the witnesses were trying to make a word out of something that was quite possibly not a word, and the best they could arrive at was something like Jews. Due to my study of Berner Street, I knew that the large sign hanging outside of the socialist club read 'International Working Men's Educational Society'. One evening, the answer occurred to me that the graffiti actually read The IWMES Are The Men...' Written in a cursif-style, 'IWMES' strongly resembles 'JUWES', but is different enough to explain the confusion of the various men reading this. The 'I' of course is similar to a 'J', the humps and hills of the W and M are like the humps and hills of U and W, and both end in ES.
The Ripper, aware that the Eddowes slaying did not bear his trademark mutilation, merely wanted to let police know that he and not the socialists were to be blamed for Stride's murder. That's all it was. I think this theory will find far more currency in decades to come when the curent fad of minimalism, led by Monty, Sam Flynn, and crew, comes to pass.

In opposition to my theory, Don Souden pointed out that acronyms were not nearly as popular in the LVP as they are now. This appears to be true, although they certainly were used, and in the case of the Ripper, where time was of the essence and he was writing with an uncomfortable implement (chalk) on an uncomfortable surface (dado), an acronym which in his haste he assumed would be instantly recognized (and perhaps it should have been), an acronym was the economical choice.
The newspapers in the days following the murder made two things clear to the Ripper - the police had completely bungled their affairs in Goulston Street, and his message was moot because the police had clearly come to the conclusion that Stride was a Ripper victim; although he must have been amused that the medical opinion suggested Eddowes was a copycat!
Anyway, there it is.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DaveMc]

I think Warren was called out of his bed that night instead of some of the lesser ranking officials because Warren was so exalted in the Masons. Someone at the scene connected the reference to the Masonic Order and called for Warren.

... but more likely the political pressure was his reason.
The Queen herself phoned the Home Office after the Stride/Eddowes murders.
Warren was already under the gun.

[chudmuskett]

"The Juwes are the men who will not be blamed for nothing." (or any of the other various versions).

Hi, I was just wondered (and try not to laugh at this) isnt there some sort of technology that may be able to make these words visible on the wall where this was written.

[curious]

Juwes

Typed Juwes into Google and this came up:

In the ritual of Master Mason, Hiram Abif was slain by three ruffians collectively termed The Juwes.
Just thought it interesting that a Masons link has been mentioned before, and wasn't it claimed that the murders may have been committed by more than one person.
Just goes to show that I can make nothing out of nothing. LOL

Since Emma Smith said she was attacked by 3, perhaps 4, men, I'm wondering if there was a gang around who perhaps called themselves the Juwes?

I think Warren was called out of his bed that night instead of some of the lesser ranking officials because Warren was so exalted in the Masons. Someone at the scene connected the reference to the Masonic Order and called for Warren.

curious

[JacknJill]

You're a wodnerful troublemaker.

For "A Christmas Story" fans:

TJATM TWNBBFN
DRINK OVALTINE

I am flattered, really I am. :P
I do think it's possible that there is something there from JTR though. Not definite course - but /possible/. It's surprising how many Ripperologists hate the word possible. They try to make things so black and white alot of the time.
I've been doing a little more reading up on the Jewish situation in Whitechapel and - although there was anti-semitism... Something just strikes me as odd about this message being written by a Jew-hater.

[martin wilson]

I played around with D.C. Halses' version to implicate William Bury

The Juwes are not the men.
Who?
Will B blamed
4-0

all the best martin

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

So, an anagram out of the following:

"The Juwes are
The men that
Will not
be Blamed
for Nothing."

Here it comes:

"Blaa, the names owe nothing truth for Jill B.M. Weed-Wheett"

No, really; it was probably some anti-semitic fraffito, that just happened to be there at the time!

All the best
Jukka

[DaveMc]

I actually sorta liked the idea that it could be an anagram or some sort of other code left by the killer. If anyone can figure anything out from it then we'd have a whle new arguement on our hands. Wow - this has amounted to alot more than I thought it would, lol.

You're a wodnerful troublemaker.

For "A Christmas Story" fans:

TJATM TWNBBFN
DRINK OVALTINE